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CC MTG MINUTES FEBRUARY 6 2008 Offa( 3111�V- MINUTES 0 REGULAR MEETING OF THE A GA WAM CITY COUNCIL FEBRUARY 6, 2008 President Letellier—It is now 7:30. Welcome to the Regular Agawam City Council Meeting for Wednesday, February 6, 2 00 8. Item I. Citizen's Speak Time . President Letellier—Our first item of agenda is Citizen's Speak Time. Since many of you may not have spoken before, I'll be happy to explain the rules. Each citizen is allotted five minutes to speak. You may not give any of your extra time to the next speaker or under the Council rules there are forty-five minutes for Citizen's Speak Time. We have over twenty people who have signed up. Therefore at 8:15 the Council would 0 have to make a motion to extend Citizen's Speak Time. I would ask that each person stick to the topic that you've signed up for. Our first speaker is Douglas Reed. And when you come to the microphone, please state your name and address. Thank you. Douglas Reed—Douglas Reed, 10 Shelley Lane, Feeding Hills. Council President Letellier, Council members and all of you in attendance here tonight, and those of you • watching this at home this evening. The dictionary defines a community as "a social group of any size whose members reside in specific locality, share government and have common cultural and historical heritage." And 2 "joint possession, enjoyment, liability, etc. community of property". Agawam by definition for its form of government is called a city but it can't be denied that we are proud to refer to it as our community. We are • fortunate to live in a society that permits and even encourages open dialogue when issues or questions confront us. This is what has brought us all here tonight. Almost five years ago, many people attended a public meeting at the Jr. High Auditorium to listen to a presentation on the sewer expansion project for Feeding Hills. Questions were taken and answered at that time. Since then however the progress has not been widely publicized and until recently hasn't gotten much attention. In the past couple of weeks though, articles have appeared in local publications that has gotten the attention of a lot of people. With the development of new parcels since that meeting, many more questions have arisen from those now involved. This project is viewed by many of the home owners who are slighted to be connected to the sewers, as a Capital Improvement Project and therefore question why the entire financial burden of this project becomes the responsibility of ONLY those residents. Now back to the definition of a community, are we really a part of it? Or are we just a special interest group as defined by some? Here are just a couple of the many analogies I've heard applying this logic. Only those families with children in school pay to support the school system. When a street needs repaving, only the people living on it will receive a bill for this. A betterment fee of some amount is expected, but not one to fund in its entirety what has been termed"the largest, most costly municipal project Agawam has ever undertaken". The expense of w • building the new Senior Center and now a proposed Community Center, before completing the sewer project—poor planning or poor judgment? In an environmental • bond bill filed by the Governor, low interest loans to cities and towns for wastewater projects may be available to Agawam if we were eligible and if it is aggressively pursued. At this time, it is still in committee. In a phone conversation on Monday with Barbara Bishop in Representative Sandlin's office, she told me that as of that time I was the only constituent to call inquiring about this pending legislation. Today, I received a call back • from Richard Peck in Senator Buoniconti's office and discussed the need to exhaust all avenues of funding for this project. With the new administration in office and new members on the Council, I, no, WE challenge the Agawam City officials to insure that not only this project continues to move forward but also to reach a compromise that best suits the interest of this city, our community, and all of its citizens. Thank you. • President Letellier—Thank you, Mr. Reed. Next we have Melissa Gillis. (Applause) Next is Melissa Gillis. Melissa Gillis—Good evening. Melissa Gillis, 10 Middle Lane in Feeding Hills. What I • want to say are some comments regarding the specifics of what I've been hearing. Um, and I want to start off by saying that I'm in favor of sewers but NOT at the cost proposed. And in relation to the cost, some of the basic math doesn't add up. If the Council is gonna put forth an informational flier, it has to be an accurate one. And here are some of the discrepancies that I see that, in my opinion, are deal breaking. They're very big. First, we talk about thirteen hundred homes but what I've heard is nine hundred existing i homes. Well, where are the other four hundred coming from? Is one hundred this proposed development, the condo development, that's gonna happen? Where are the other three hundred homes coming from? And if you do the basic math, $20,000.00 x 1300 homes=$26 million. You're short $6 million dollars. Where is it coming from? Who's gonna pay for that? One of the other things I wanted to say, you know, coupled 0 with a 42% increase in the sewers,that's an exorbitant cost. And at $20,000.00, I think that also, these people need to know that$20,000.00 gets it to the end of your driveway. It does not get it into your home. Then you're talking about approximately $4,500.00 to get it from your driveway into your home and an additional approximate $1000.00 to crush your system in the back. Now we're up to $26,000.00 and we haven't even spoken 0 once (1) about where the other$6 million is coming from and (2) what are the hidden costs that are out there. That's very significant. I also don't think that it is responsible to say that property values are going to increase. They're NOT. Appraisers and assessors will tell you that whether you have a septic or sewer system, the value of your home remains the same. It is neither a benefit to you to have a sewer system nor is it a • detriment to have a working septic system. So I would sincerely hope that the Town wouldn't, in the event that this goes through, use this as a way to additional affect the properties that now have a sewer system. One of the other points that I wanted to make is that a lot of the surrounding towns have installed sewer systems and the cost has NEVER been $20,000.00. So what I'm saying is if there's no state or federal funding around, then maybe now is not the time. Maybe we wait until there is. And if that means that our permits lapse, oh well. If the permit is gonna be harder to get next time, well harder for who? And who does that benefit by getting new permits? Does that benefit us or does • • that benefit the town? And speaking of the town, I know that around three years ago, this issue became fast tracked by a developer who had purchased approximately one hundred • acres and wanted to build a condominium complex. And at that time, it was my understanding that that developer had agreed to "contribute" a significant amount to our, installing the sewer systems on the main road. Well, where is that developer? And how much are they going to put in now? And, why then would we have to pay for the whole thing for a benefit that somebody else is going to get? As far as selling a home with the betterment assessment, I do have to say that I don't necessarily agree with the fact that you would have to uh, pay off the betterment when you sold your house. I am real estate attorney and so I speak from experience when I say that I've done closings both ways. I've done them where the homeowner has had to pay them off and I've done them where they haven't and I feel a lot of that has to do with disclosure. So, what I'm really.saying • to all of you is do I want sewers? Sure! I'd like to have that option. I have a new home so I don't need it now but I'd like to have the option but NOT at this cost. It's too much. It's just too much for people. And in the future if we want to return to this issue when there's more state and federal funding available and it's not so much to the homeowner, I think that would be a more appropriate time. Thank you. 0 President Letellier—Thank you, Miss Gillis. Next we have Frank Cardaropoli. Frank Cardaropoli—Frank Cardaropoli, Dutchmaster Drive. Speaking for myself, my family, many of my neighbors and friends, we say NO to the proposed $31.2 million sewer expansion. We say NO because of the proposed method of financing, no federal • aid, no state aid, no shared cost with the town. What makes our City Council believe that if the federal government can't afford this project now, that the state of Massachusetts can't afford this project now, why would nine hundred homes in Feeding Hills be able to afford $20,000.00 a piece now? Does that make any sense? The next question, why NOW? We're in an economic down cycle. Why not wait until federal and state aid can • be secured? Wouldn't the aid far outweigh any additional cost for re-permitting? What would the re-permitting cost be? We've never been told that. Mayor Dawson said "there will be no commercial or industrial development in that part of town. Without a sewer system, nothing big can function." If this is a project for the betterment of the town, shouldn't the entire town shoulder the responsibility? Shouldn't the entire town pay for it 0 through a higher mil rate? We say NO to liens being placed on our homes. Some of us may never see this project to completion yet the homeowner will be required to pay for something they will never receive the benefit from. Is that fair? Is that responsible? We say NO because we understand that $20,000.00 per household will, in the end, most likely be $30,000.00 - $40,000.00. We say NO because the proposed installation plan • brings the main sewer lines through our backyards. Literally! We say NO to heavy equipment digging up our trees, our fences, our sheds, and sprinkler systems. When we purchased our homes, we purchased one of the most fundamental legal rights in the United States as a citizen. We purchased the right of quiet use and enjoyment to be able to enjoy our backyards, our patios, our pools, allow for a place for our children to play and our pets to run. How is any of this going to possible when you have large, heavy 0 equipment constantly coming through the backyards of our homes? This by far, is the most egregious, absurd and unacceptable part of the proposal. Without consideration to • • our concerns, we say NO! • President Letellier—Thank you Mr. Cardaropoli. Next we have Shannon Page. Shannon Page—Good evening. I'm Shannon Page and I live on Barbara Lane in Feeding Hills. I didn't prepare a fancy speech as some of the other people have spent the time to do. I'm just kind of speaking from the heart through motion. I was at • Wednesday's meeting and I appreciate the time you took for us. Before I start with anything, I have to say thank you to whoever the phantom flier person is in this crowd because without that, we really wouldn't have been kept abreast of what's going on. As I said to you all on Wednesday, I appreciate the time and the effort and the energy that you've spent into this proposal. I can appreciate that fact that it's not easy reading or easy planning. But in turn, I'm asking that you appreciate the fact that LOOK AT THE CROWD. This is our lively hood! This is our money! And although we're talking twenty, twenty-five,thirty thousand dollars apiece, you're affecting the way we live our lives one way or another. If I wanted to spend an extra$1000.00 a year or so on my taxes, I would have moved to Longmeadow. I didn't grow up in Feeding Hills. My husband and I chose this town because we love it. We love the land, we love the homes, we love the people, we love the community. This is the first time that we've actually had an issue that we kind of raised our eyebrows to. I take an issue with when someone tells me how I have to run my family and what enjoyments and luxuries I may have to give up in order to maintain my home. I don't want to leave. But I don't know if this keeps going, and the actual tax increases keep going, if we'll be able to keep our home. My • concern that I had voiced last Wednesday was, with all the time and effort that you've spent, what guarantees do WE, the people affected by this proposal, the people who are against it, if we are clearly the majority, the majority of the people who are affected, not the town,the people who are affected, what guarantees do we have the YOU, our elected officials, will act on the best interests of OUR behalf? Not the best interests of the city, per se, I like most people, who I like a sewer? Sure! But I agree, it's a city wide, or a town wide improvement, and so for that the town in its entirety should help in funding this project. I spoke with someone recently, and I had mentioned that other towns and cities are doing sewer projects, surrounding towns. And when I said to this individual that there is no money, we were told that there's no money to be had, he said that's • ridiculous! To the Department of Environmental Protection, there's something called a Sewer Revolving Fund, and you may be aware of that,that the town can get a loan at a 2% interest rate. Two percent! That's pretty low! I know it's really tough to face all of our upset or angry faces, I realize that and my heart goes out for you because you have to face that after you've spent all of this time and energy doing it. But $300,000.00 has • been spent towards this project thus far, and you mention that the permits only have a two year shelf life. What we failed to ask in error last Wednesday is when did you pull these permits? And how much time of these two years is left? I know it's hard and I know you want to move this forward and I know this sewer project would generate businesses coming through and these condos and generate new tax revenue for the town, but is it worth upsetting all of these people? Is it worth putting a burden? Would you still be doing this if you lived on our street? Would you still feel the same way if that $20,000.00 or$30,000.00 was gonna come out of your pocket? I appreciate the time that • • you have listening for us and I hope that you would work in the best interest of us who are affected. Thank you. • President Letellier—Thank you, Miss Page. Next we have John Cappuccilli. John Cappuccilli—My name is John Cappuccilli. I live at 50 Red Fox Drive. I wish to thank the community for coming together. This is great. Pros and Cons. This is what makes a community. To air out differences and to resolve differences. To the gentlemen before the lady there said one thing. I have a prepared speech but I wanted to make a...I've lived in this community for eight years, uh, we are sitting here and he said that uh, about heavy equipment, I don't know if any of you in the South West section remember we're sitting on the high pressured Tennessee gas line, runs right through the • community. Another one they tore up, the whole southwest section, running off the mountain, there was heavy equipment, they had the right of way, they tore up homes, they tore up, they took down pools, they literally destroyed the southwest section. They put it back together again, but we were invaded. We had no say in it. So this is not gonna be the case. This is gonna be a well-thought out, planned project. Now I'm gonna read my prepared speech. Good evening residents of the southwest section of Feeding • Hills and Agawam. I, along with my wife Joanne have lived here since 1976. 1 am a member of the Concerned Citizens for Sewers Ad Hoc Committee. This committee was established in spring of 2003 to work with the administration,the town council and public works department to investigate the possibility of sewer expansion in the southwest section. I want to thank the hard work of all involved, especially Jack O'Neil, • friend and neighbor for over thirty years. Unfortunately, Jack is no longer with us but his concerns would be the same today as they were then. That is to fix the problem that have plagued many of the residents of the southwest section in regards to their waste disposal. I am sure we are all in agreement that because of the lack of actions of the past administrations over the last thirty years, this project has become moving financial nightmare. I cannot stand before you tonight in good conscience and support the proposal that the majority of the burden should fall solely on the chosen few. This should be considered a capital improvement and be shared by the whole community. We all share in the cost of education, police and fire services, even though many of us do not use them on a daily basis. As I read the letter we recently received, it drove home the point that this should be a shared project by the whole community. I have always maintained decisions based on passion are ill advised only those based on facts and well thought out plans will succeed. As this project progressed, reams and reams of reports were generated. Many state hurdles had to be overcome to get licenses and state approvals necessary to proceed. Yes, over$300,000.00 was spent on this community project to get to this point. These dollars were already available in the public works funds that became earmarked to this project. The reports, I believe, are still available from what I've heard. Just to set the record straight, this is not"Joe's Big Dig". This is not Joe's big dig. This committee was established at a public meeting just like this in the spring of 2003. This is not a done deal. It needs approval of the Town Council. The bond to move this fine project forward, the best part of living in this great United States of America, we all have • a say in this process. And, at this point in time, we all have a say. I invite everybody to get involved. We need new ideas on how to fund this project. I challenge this • • administration to find funding at a local, state and federal level and I say just DO IT! In closing, I'd like to thank Jack Stone and his staff for five years of hard work. Five years • of hard work and due diligence to get this project where it is today. It wasn't easy. Also, I want to thank the rest of the committee, Joe Mineo, who has a thankless job, and uh, Cecilia Calabrese, Dennis Perry, and the committee members, Lowell McLane and Ron Lariviere. Also, God bless Jack O'Neil who spearheaded this project and I want to thank everybody in attendance tonight. We need your ideas on how to move this project forward. We need to get this administration involved to find out how we can get funding. There is funding available. There's a lot of projects out there. Get off your duffs, get moving, we need your help. Thank you very much. President Letellier— Thank you, Mr. Cappuccilli. Next we have Christine Packer. • Christine Packer--My name is Christine Packer and I live at 20 Denise Lane. Um, I have a few questions because I called inquiring on this and I spoke with Jack Stone and he told me that I'd be notified. I'd like to also thank the person who dropped the flier off in my mailbox because if I didn't receive it, I wouldn't have known about the meeting. • So I'm not all that prepared but I do have a few questions. They say it's gonna cost $20,000.00, how did we get $20,000.00? How do we know it won't be $25,000 or $30,000? With today's economy and people losing their homes, it's gonna create serious hardships for many people. I'm a young mother, I have two small kids. I know for myself another $1,000.00 a year is a great cost tome. Maybe apart time job, however I have to do it. I love Agawam, I've lived here just about all my life and I think it's a • shame that you can just impose this cost on people. I have a brand new septic system and when I asked about it, I was told that septic would not last me the lifetime of my house. I disagree. My parents had a septic system and as long as you take care of them they last. No you can't flush...down them but they last. I don't need a sewer. He says, "Oh well, the sewers, if something goes wrong, we pay for them." No, I pay for it as a taxpayer! I • pay a sewer bill twice a year. That pays for whatever goes wrong. So I disagree. $300 for permits? ($300,000) Okay, I feel bad for those people who are over on Red Fox and White Fox. I've heard that they can't take showers and do laundry at the same time. Why didn't we spend that $300 to help them ($300,000) instead of pulling permits? Just questions that I have yet to get answers to. Thank you. • President Letellier—Thank you Miss Packer. Next we have James Peterson. James Peterson--Good evening. James Peterson, 734 South West Street, Feeding Hills. I don't have a prepared speech but I just wanted to voice my opposition to uh, not the sewer systems and capital improvements and town improvements, and making Agawam more attractive for business,I am opposed to the way it's being funded. To be, to be dropped a$20,000.00 bill whether it's spread out over twenty years or however long it's going to be spread out, or a $6000 or $4500 hook up fee, I just don't see how that can be done if there's—I would think that there's mechanisms in place on the state, town, local level that provides for funding for these projects. To have 1300 residents, units, families pay for essentially what's a town improvement,to make it more attractive for business and industry to come in. I don't see how that's,that's proper, um, I mean maybe, I • haven't seen a whole Iot of information coming from the Town as to how it's gonna be done, how it's gonna be broken down, how it's gonna be paid out, whether there's a cap • on it, whether it starts out at$20,000 but not to exceed $35,000 and how it's gonna be paid out. I mean over twenty years, there's no guarantee that I'll be in my home for twenty years. I've heard estimates that it could start somewhere in 2008 and we could not receive a hookup depending on where we lived, for ten years. I don't know if that's proper information but if I'm paying into that for ten years and I get a job transfer and I 0 have to move away from Feeding Hills which I do not intent to do, I have to pay it up in full. I think that's pretty much adding expensive closing costs to my house. And I don't think that's right and I don't think it's right for these people here to be just thrown into this and say hey listen we're doing this project, it's gonna be for your own good, oh by . the way, you gotta pay $20,000.00. 1 just don't think that's fair and I want to register my opposition. Thank you. President Letellier—Thank you Mr. Peterson. Next we have Gary Arnold. Gary Arnold—Good evening. I'll keep my remarks short. I'm a real estate agent. I've been working in Feeding Hills for the last twenty four years or so and uh, I see many of my customers here tonight and I really feel bad for the situation that they're in as well as myself. Some of these folks just bought houses recently and the equity of their home by putting this on their house, they're pretty much gonna have no equity when they're done with this. And if they did have to sell because of a family reason or whatever,they might be in a position where they're gonna lose it or they're gonna sell it and bring money at the closing. I'm not sure how that would work. My comments really are to the market value or the value of these nine hundred or thirteen hundred homes,whichever it is. This is devastating. This is devastating to these thirteen hundred homes. Somebody mentioned they'll pick up the betterment. If there's a$20,000 betterment, I can assure that's gonna be part of the negotiations. If I can buy a house on the other side of town that's the same house, I'm not gonna pay the same thing in this corner of Feeding Hills and pay that $20,000.00 betterment. It's not happening. I've got a new house on the market in Feeding Hills right now. That $20,000 could have a big effect on that house. Brand new house, brand new septic system. The other thing that was mentioned, somebody said the price of the house or the value of the house would be higher. Not so. * We don't appraise houses that have sewers any higher than houses that have septic systems. It's the same data. Pure and simple,this is way too high. It's devastating. It shouldn't happen. We ask you not to vote for this. Thank you. President Letellier—Thank you Mr. Arnold. Next we have Lorenzo Mancuso. Lorenzo Mancuso —My name is Lorenzo Mancuso. I live on Barbara Lane in Feeding Hills. I'm gonna be affected by this sewer system. I didn't prepare a speech but I'm for the sewer system but I'm against the cost. It's way out of range. You guys are not being honest with the people. You're not showing the total cost of it. The $6000 to hookup to the pipe from the street to our homes and it's gonna destroy people's yards and we're 0 gonna have this big machinery. And who says, they haven't finished 57 in how many years now? Who says we're gonna finish after you guys impose the charge to us? You 0 know, you guys wanna impose big business, and you guys want the revenue from condominiums coming into our area. You guys need to ask the contractor to come up with some of the money, some of the cost for this, if they're gonna come with big business over here. Nobody wants big business but if a condominium complex is gonna come in, they should be sucking up a lot of the charge here. And uh, where do you guys stand on this? Do any of you live in these neighborhoods that are being affected? I understand there's problems on White Fox and Red Fox, why aren't we correcting the problem there instead of tearing up the whole town? That's where we stand. We need to fix the problem, not destroy the whole town. Nobody else is having problems with their septic systems. So why are we gonna cause a bigger problem in the town? We're all tax payers. We're in the middle of a recession right now and nobody has money. Everybody is just trying to make ends meet. The cost of homes is going down in Agawam just like everywhere else. Everybody paid top dollar to live in these neighborhoods, now you're gonna impose another $20,000 charge to these new homes over on Christopher Lane, Spear Farms, and all them? They can't afford to have another$20,000 put over them or a lien on their homes. You guys need to adjust the cost of this and find funding from the state. There's got to, there's plenty of funding out there, you guys need to do your + homework. You guys work for us. We don't work for you guys. We vote you in. (APPLAUSE) And I'm a tax payer and I'm not done here. If this keeps getting pushed and we're not gonna do the right thing, I'm gonna go higher than here. I'm gonna go all the way to Boston and I'm not gonna be afraid and I'm sure many of these people here are gonna support me doing it. So I hope you guys are gonna vote in the best interest of us cuz we're the ones that vote you guys into office. That's all I have to say. • President Letellier—Thank you Mr. Mancuso. Next we have Alan Trauschke. Sorry if I'm mispronouncing it. Alan Trauschke—Good evening. Alan Trauschke, 208 Barry Street. For all the people who didn't prepare anything tonight and I'm one of them, I want to thank you, you're doing a very good job even though you weren't prepared. Back in '03 a gentleman mentioned Jack O'Neil who's no longer with us, who was at the meeting in '03 as was I and many of the people here, and one of the things he talked about was we would like to see this thing done and therefore he got onto the Ad Hoc Committee and so forth. And it proceeded from there. The uh, one of the things he stepped up and said at that meeting was however, I hope you're not gonna impose this on us. We're gonna find a way to fund this thing and assurances were given from everybody there. "Oh no, we're gonna look at everything." I think at this point, it's obvious that the best interest of the whole town if you look again at how to fund this whole process and if it can be done individually to help those that have serious problems now as opposed to you know...I'm in a low impact area, back then there were low, medium and high impact areas and I think those still exist. I'm sure they probably do. But the second part of the issue as far as the funding,to fund this project or even think of funding this project by assessing the 1300 or however many homes or people that would be affected by this has got to be the most horrid way of funding any process I've ever seen in my life. To put a lien on someone's property is probably the worst thing you could do to any homeowner with, this is their, in many cases,the only way they have of funding things to move forward in their lives, college, weddings, additions to their homes. Okay, if you put a lien on that, a bank okay, will NOT take a second or third position to that lien. They will not! That would have to be removed and it would have to be subbed out and you would have to give us the right to move that lien or we would have to pay that lien off in order to fund a wedding, fund a trip, as a matter of fact everybody here,potentially everybody here, some of us have paid off their entire home and they want to buy a second property somewhere, probably not in Feeding Hills the way this is going but somewhere, they would have to pay that off. They could not get a home equity line of credit. It could be for a medical issue so, if you think of funding and putting a lien on a property like that, the affects are much greater and the impact would be much greater than, oh yea, there's a lien on the property and you gotta pay that off in order to uh, in order to move forward. Some people may not be able to move forward if it's medical, if it's other issues that affect their lives. Please give it more consideration and I'm sure there's enough people here that would be more than happy to work with different committees or work with the town to move in a, in a direction to help those people out that uh, need to get this done. Thank you. President Letellier— Thank you Mr. Trauschke. Next we have Donald Hatzipetro. Donald Hatzipetro—Good evening ladies and gentlemen. I am not for the cost of the sewers but I am for a sewer system. President Letellier— Sir, I don't mean to interrupt you but could you just state your name and address for the record. I'm sorry. Donald Hatzipetro—Oh, Donald Hatzipetro, 491 Southwest Street. Like I just said, I'm not for the cost of the sewer system. It's really way too high for all of us. We,the people, have elected you to do a jab. And you're not doing a very good job for us. You sit up there on your pedestal. I'm glad to see that everybody's awake and nobody's sleeping. And I hope you people will take the time to make a packet and send it to each resident that's affected by this system, by making phone calls and everything, with no hidden bottom lines. The other people spoke more eloquently than I did and I appreciate the time that you give me to talk to you because we must all like you, we put you here. r We hope you show us the same respect and I don't believe you are. And another thing I'd like to know was this put up for bid? How many contractors were involved in this? One? Your next door neighbor? We'd like to know. These are the questions we'd like to know. Thank you. I appreciate your time. # President Letellier—Thank you Mr. Hatzipetro. Next we have Bill Curtis. Bill Curtis--Good evening. My name is Bill Curtis from 443 Barry Street, Feeding Hills. I'm definitely opposed to the sewer system on our way. I don't think the council or the Ad Hoc committee has looked into how good septic systems are really in today's market. Septic systems are a viable alternative to sewers. I've done a lot of research over the internet over the last weeks and there's many, many communities that now are looking for strictly going to septic versus sewer, especially in Rhode Island. The • A University of Rhode Island right now has come up with a great program for municipalities to look into; they're looking at septic vs. sewers. And I don't know if the • town has looked into that but it's a great educational tool for the committee. The other thing I'd like to talk about too tonight would be the cost. We had our Mayor go on a television station tonight stating that the cost to us would be $18,000 - $20,000. That's what the Mayor was saying but like many people said tonight, there's added costs. Added costs are about $100 per linear foot for piping. Now wherever you people live, I know where I live, it's gonna cost me at least 100 linear feet,just for the piping. Just for the piping! I also, one thing the Mayor said tonight that concerned me was that um, "this is a good investment for the homeowner." (LAUGHTER) I don't understand that but maybe she can tell us what she meant by it. ("Where is the Mayor?") ("Where is she?")I did some other research with the Department of Environmental Protection for the State of Massachusetts and I want to quote you from a code that is in the book. it's code #15.288, section 5b, "In certifying an alternative system for general use of septic, the department may determine that any person wishing use such system NEED NOT connect the facility to the sanitary sewer if such connection is or becomes feasible if the performance of the alternate system will provide a level of protection to the public health and safety and the • environment that is at least equal to that of the sewer system." And I thank you for your time ... President Letellier— Thank you Mr. Curtis. Next we have Gary Saccomani. Gary Saccomani—Good evening. Gary Saccomani, 461 Barry Street, Feeding Hills. I'm opposed to the sewer project and especially the cost and potentially the cost overruns that would be attached to these jobs or to this job. Thank you. President Letellier— Thank you Mr. Saccomani. Next we have Billy Chester. Billy Chester—Good evening Councilors. Billy Chester, 320 Barry Street, Feeding Hills. I have two items here. The first one's gonna be the CPA request for $12,000.00 to be used for some architectural design for the two parks one notated on Meadowbrook off River Road and the other one on Valleybrook off of North Westfield Street in Feeding Hills, `cuz as you all know that this property is owned by the town. This money can be better utilized by putting it toward the purchase of equipment for the park rather than design. George made a comment the other night that he could design this park and we would not need anybody to be hired to do so. There surely must be an influence on government to design a small playground. The only people, I went and saw these two parks today by the way and they're in the boonies. The only people that I can see that will be useful, that will use these parks would be the people living in the developments where the town line is is at the end of the developments off of the main road. They're way back in the back side of the developments. Now the other question is which Joe brought up the other night, the other question is who,who will be maintaining these parks? The end cost of that would be pay for by the taxpayers. Are we going to go out and hire more people to take care of these parks? More tax dollars from the taxpayer and an increase in the town budget. So I ask you not to give this money to CPA for design purposes and put the money into the equipment going into the park at a later date. Be • sure, it would be nice to have the people if you are going to do this in these developments, to get some input on whether they wanted these parks. So that they're not, 01 they're not just taking money and just doing whatever they want to with it. My other issue is of course the sewer like everybody else. People are doing a very good job here tonight so I won't linger on it much. First of all, I want to acknowledge Mr. Russo (Mr. Rossi) because at the last meeting, Mr. (Rossi) had the foresight to see that this was a major issue and the people in this town should have something to say about it,the people i that were affected by this. (APPLAUSE) As it stands right now, I am against the proposed sewer project. I'm not against the sewers,just the way this is being paid. It would not only cause a substantial financial burden on my family but also to those other 1299 people affected by this project. Thank you very much for your time. i President Letellier—Thank you Mr. Chester. Next we have Robert King. Robert King—Hello. My name is Robert King, 188 South West Street, Feeding Hills. I object to the cost as everybody else here apparently and the financing method that has taken place. It seems to me it is adding an extra mortgage to everyone's house that is affected. You're coming down and saying you must sign this mortgage whether you like it or not. And then it obstructs the sale or change of hands of any of these properties. It seems like it's a bandit taking over these few people in this small area when it should taken care of by the whole town. If there is anybody that builds a house or exchanges a house in other parts of the town, does not have this cost. Why is it that we are singled out i when the others are not? This seems unfair to me. Thank you. President Letellier—Thank you Mr. King. Next we have Helen Chester. Helen Chester—Helen Chester, 320 Barry Street. A lot of what I had planned to say has been very well expressed already, so I won't linger some more on it. But I do want to 4) publicly thank Councilor Rossi for his insistence that we have a full disclosure for this sewer project. (APPLAUSE) I also find it a little difficult to comprehend how the state can have millions of dollars for parks and bike paths and no money for a project of this nature. Thank you. 0 President Letellier—Thank you Mrs. Chester. Next we have Dennis Stempel. Dennis Stempel—Good evening. My name is Dennis Stempel and I live at 85 Christopher Lane in Feeding Hills. A lot's been said about the sewer tonight and I expect that a lot more is gonna be said before we're really prepared to make decisions. So 0 without rehashing a lot of the same points over and over, let me just make three very specific requests of the City Council. One, I urge the Council to take no further action regarding decisions on the proposal including the zones and the district that would include our homes or how our homes would be accessed until all the proper information has been provided and an appropriate process has been followed to both include us and inform us and let us have some input into the process. Number two; I'd really like the Council to immediately take significant steps to disseminate some information. You can hear the need for information. There's been a lot of information that I've learned about i A just in the last week or two. A lot of its through excerpts of articles and town reminder and newspaper articles, a lot of information that fellow residents and neighbors have + shared with me which I really appreciate. But at the same time, I think there's a lot a project plans, technical information, environmental impact, there's a lot of work that's been done, a lot of money that's been spent. Make the information available to us. Use the town website, set up a link, set up a page, scan the documents and get the information out there so we can look at it, we can read it and we can all be better informed and we can try to help you make better decisions. Third, I_really think the Council,the obvious thing that you've heard tonight, that's been a consistent theme,the Council really needs to take a step back and consider whether the financing of this project is really feasible with the funding as proposed or whether we really need to reevaluate and get energized around potential federal and state assistance. Thank you. • President Letellier—Thank you. It's now 8:15 do I have a motion from the Council to extend Citizen's Speak Time? Moved by Councilors Rheault and Rossi, seconded by Councilor Bitzas. All those in favor of extending Citizen's Speak Time please signify by saying Ay. Opposed? Thank you. We have approximately six more speakers. Next we have Laurie Rocke. Laurie Rocke—Laurie Rocke. I'm from 188 South West Street. Uh, I have a lot of questions. The previous speaker brought up a good point. I don't think any of us have come into this meeting particularly well informed. I would like to see some kind of flier or something go out to every single person who's going to be affected by this with all the details. I want to know is there an agency that's requiring us to do this. What is their deadline? How have we explored the funding? Have we gone out for bid? What is the estimate of this cost coming from? How are the costs being developed for each resident? What percent are we paying and is the town contributing? You know all of these questions, I'd like to see addressed. They may have been in one form or another but it • certainly never reached me. It wasn't in the paper; it wasn't in the Advertiser that I saw. The first that I heard of this meeting was on Channel 22 News when you had, you know, when you were meeting last week. So I'm coming here totally unprepared. I can say right now that I'm not in favor of the project. I'm gonna be retiring in a few years. I'm sixty. My only asset is the house that I live in. My ONLY asset! I raised four kids. I have no money in the bank. You are taking $20,000.00 right out of the only asset that I have. Right now I'm working full time. I don't earn $20,000.00 a year. This is serious business for me. You know, I may never be able to retire and I certainly can't afford to lose anything that I've built up over a lifetime. That's it. That's all I have to say. s President Letellier—Thank you Miss Rocke. Next we have Carl Franqueza. Carl Franqueza—Carl Franqueza, 770 Barry Street. I um just want to make a point. When you put the lien on a house, you do it immediately. No one will be able to refinance so if some young couple that moved into the neighborhood a year or two ago, had one of those adjustable rate mortgages that went crazy,they wouldn't be able to do a thing with it, if they didn't have enough equity in their house to refinance it. Secondly, if one of these people had their septic systems fail now and their in Stage 4, they'd have to 0 have their septic system repaired and then wait for the sewer system to come through. It's like getting done twice. It's crazy. Thank you. • President Letellier—Thank you Mr. Franqueza. Next we have Judity Mangiaratti. Judith Mangiaratti—Hi. I'm Judity Mangiaratti and I the gentleman that was just up pointed to what phase I'm in. I'm faced with right now,.. • President Letellier—Ma'am, I don't mean to interrupt, we just need your address. Thank you. Judith Mangiaratti--Oh, I I I Karen Lynn Circle, Feeding Hills. Um, I am presently * faced with having to upgrade to the 16,000 or so septic that now is in affect and um, I've lived in my house since 1976. It's been over thirty years so I'm due to have something come up that I have to take care of and it would be a double hit for me, having to upgrade and then sewers come through. However, I am for sewers because one thing that hasn't been mentioned tonight is the health issue involved especially in my area. I'm off of • Northwest Street. It seems like most of the people who spoke are off of Southwest Street. This wet weather that we have been having, you go out in my circle and you have an aroma of what happens when you are in a high water table and a septic system over thirty years old. I've already replaced it once, and the health issue is facing me,that it's scary. But I do have to think about it now. What is my next move? Do I have the time to wait for sewers to come through? Which I do want, or am I going to be forced due to health issues to do the septic code upgrade. I don't exactly know what it is other than it's a lot of money. Several people on my street have already had to do that upgrade. They are opposed to now putting $20,000+because they have exhausted their funds. If they could be afforded some sort of rebate or something if they had to tie in,that could be a possibility but I am also opposed to the amount of money that our section is faced with • when for thirty years this has been an issue. And I don't know if I mentioned it but when I bought my house in '76 the real estate agent told me that in five years sewer would come through to my area. Then in 1986, I took a petition around to my circle and went down to the DPW and presented it to them that we all wanted sewer because we were getting to that stage, um and they told me in 1956 that we were Phase III and that we would have it within ten years. Well, now in 2008. That's not ten years. So I do support the sewers because I am in need and I definitely think you need to become real creative as far as how it's gonna be funded. Thank you. President Letellier—Thank you Miss Mangiaratti. Next we have Joann McGeoghan. oil Joann McGeoghan--Good evening members of the City Council. I'm a resident of Feeding Hills. My name is Joann McGeoghan and I reside at 75 Christopher Lane. I built my house twenty-one years ago. The purpose first of all for last Wednesday's meeting I realize was the beginning of your workshop to start a brochure to educate the thirteen or whatever number it actually is. So I do realize that we basically have to trust in that process. I'm also fully aware that there was a public hearing prior but at this time I would like to request that this process to educate and inform the residents affected with • this possible project as well as the entire town, start from the beginning again. We need to be educated prior to making a decision. I think our input is invaluable. We have new elected officials,we have new residents, and we have a lot of people who are not privy to all of the information regarding this project. And I do feel for the sake of ourselves, yourselves and the entire community we need to do this. I believe that the informational workshops that have been suggested, should be held at the Middle School for those residents that would like to attend but not have verbal input and to rebroadcast these workshops over the public access channel for those that could not make it or for us to re- look at, so we can make sure that we've heard things correctly. I believe that mailing the informational fliers to each resident is invaluable but at the same time it should be done to ALL the residents in the community. EVERY SINGLE RESIDENT and taxpayer that has a sewer rate will be affected! It is not just us. It is everybody! Everybody will have a 42% increase in the sewer rate. You put that on top of our fee for doing that,we are getting double hit. I strongly believe again that this does affect the entire town not just the thirteen, nine hundred whatever households there really are, everyone's rates will increase. After all the informational workshops have been held, I would urge you to rehold a public hearing for the public's input for us to be heard, for or against the project. It is very important for the facts not rumors to be told to us. We do not need to hear rumors and I feel that that is what is happening. I have heard a lot of things going out there, they are not the truth. I am against the sewer project as it stands before us currently. Personally, I have no 401(k), I have no retirement, I have no savings. I'm a single mother that has raised seven children in my home on Christopher Lane. I have a fixed income. I currently am debating, do I move now,before the betterment assessment is applied? I cannot afford to leave afterwards but I can't afford to stay. What am I to do after I have raised my seven children here? Thank you. President Letellier—Thank you Miss McGeoghan. Our next speaker is Dan Hale. Dan Hale--Hi, I'm Dan Hale, 409 Southwick Street in Feeding Hills. I just want to talk about the possible cost override that's definitely gonna occur. It always does with projects of this size. If you're going in the back of people's house, you're gonna tear up fences, sprinkler systems, pools, sheds, all those have to be repaired. Now, some people you just can't please. You're gonna go back two,three, four times to make sure it's done correctly. Well all that cost will fall back onto the project and if somebody has a fenced in yard and they have a problem with the sewer, if anybody has ever seen this machine, the high velocity machine in the sewer department is huge. They have to get this machine onto somebody's fenced in property to clear out a possible clogged line. Well, to the best of my knowledge you can't go on somebody's property without permission. So if somebody is on vacation and they got a blockage down the street, you gotta try to get this big machine in there to fix the system. That's one of the things that they need to think about. If they'd have put it in the road where it belongs at least the people would get the advantage of a new paved road out of it instead of a torn up back yard. (APPLAUSE) And this, as far as the cost, for$20,000.00 I can maintain my septic system for the next 200 years!!! (APPLAUSE) Now, that's providing it stays at the $19,600 but you know there's some projects that happened in town that didn't exactly hit the target. They went over which is, it happens on big projects which I think is gonna • happen on this project. I don't know if they did any kind of survey, but they could go down the street and hit rock. Now they gotta get a big machine in there to knock that • rock out. Well that's added cost at $200 an hour or so. Now, personally, I can't afford $30,000 over the next twenty years. I think it's way too much money. I think that town needs to wait until funds are available from the federal government or state government because basically I'm paying $20,000.00 to get a bill for the sewer. (APPLAUSE) You know, I'm in favor for the sewer healthwise but I have a perfectly functioning system that 1 maintain. If you don't maintain your septic system, it's like your car, it's gonna break down. But if you maintain it like you're supposed to, you shouldn't have a problem. If you do have a problem,then there was a problem with the perk test. And I know the town is not responsible for the perk tests but I think they should be involved in maybe observing the test, verifying that it happened. Because I know that in some cases where ! there's high water tables, they wait until we have two months or three months without rain before they do a perk test on it. But, I am against this for the money reason, because I can't afford, I have a family and I need to think about them. I have kids that are gonna go to college and what am I gonna tell them? They can't go to college `cuz I'm paying for a sewer I didn't want. (APPLAUSE)And as far as the industry does, I think it . belongs in the industrial park, not in Feeding Hills. (APPLAUSE) And voting the shopping center down, I think the town of Agawam does not want big industry in this town and I think that was obvious by that vote. And to put it in Feeding Hills doesn't make any sense, it should be in the industrial park where it belongs. You want to build a bigger park, buy the golf course across the street from it. But that's all I've got to say. Thank you. President LetelHer—Thank you Mr. Hale. Our final speaker this is evening is Bill, I believe it's Freyder? Fertell, maybe? F-R-A-T-E-T maybe? 67 Barbara Lane? Oh Footit. Wow! Sorry! • Bill Footit—Hi. Bill Footit from 67 Barbara Lane and uh, being the last speaker, I think I've heard it all. And I think you have too. I think these people are pretty much kind of shocked you know that this proposal was even put on the board. I mean shocked! That's shocked! Being the last speaker, there was some great, great things said and uh,they all make sense. They all make sense! Sewer is great, it has great things. Septic systems are good. It's just the way it's gone. The way it's being done is, it's, we do not finance the town. We do it in taxes. We do not finance a town! We don't finance a job like this. I can't believe this was even put on the board that the people would have to finance their own sewer. You know it's ridiculous! I'm sorry. Thank you very much. President Letellier—Thank you Mr. Footit. That concludes Citizen's Speak Time. I'm gonna call a five minutes recess `cuz some of us have been here for a couple of hours. Thank you. (RECESS)Next we have declaration from Council President. I will postpone that. Next we have Petitions, Memorials and Remonstrances. We have... Councilor Perry—Madam President? I would like to make a motion to suspend the rules because of the attendance of the people this evening and all being here and moving Item 1 under Old Business up before this, I make that motion? A President Letellier— Okay, we have a motion to move TOR-2007-11 forward and • seconded by Councilor Bitzas? Any discussion? No, seeing none, Barbara, could you call the roll please? A yes vote is to suspend the rules to move the item forward. ROLL CALL— 11 Yes, 0 No. President Letellier—With a vote of eleven yes, we've brought the item forward so currently under discussion is TOR-2007-11. This is the second reading out of three. It requires six votes to take action. Do we have a motion? Councilor Mineo? Councilor Mineo —Yea, I'd like to make a motion that we table this indefinitely until we S get all the information out to the residents. Tii we get it all out and I believe it is gonna be a questionnaire and I want to table until we get all the information back from the residents to make sure we know what they want, what they want us to do. President Letellier—Thank you. We have a motion to table indefinitely from Councilor * Mineo. Do we have a second? Councilor Bitzas—Before we second it, can we discuss...before we second it??? President Letellier—Councilor Bitzas, there's no discussion on a tabling motion. Do we have a second? Councilor Bitzas—I asked... President Letellier— Seconded by Councilor Cavallo and I believe three or four other people. Council Clerk could you please call the roll? A yes vote is to table the item indefinitely. 1. TOR-2007-11 -An Ordinance to Amend the Code of the Town of Agawam Water and Sewer Ordinances by Adding Article XII, "Special Sewer Improvement District" r ROLL CALL— 10 Yes, 1 No (Councilor Rossi) President Letellier—With a vote of ten yes and one no, we've tabled the item indefinitely. Councilor Bitzas —Point of Information, Mr. President. President Letellier—Certainly. Councilor Bitzas - Yes, uh, can we just take it off the Agenda and not appear on the Agenda at all? • President Letellier - That was not the motion before the council, Councilor Bitzas. • Councilor Bitzas - That was what I'd like to see, it taken off the Agenda. President Letellier—Thank you. Item 2. Roll Call • ROLL CALL— 11 Present, 0 absent President Letellier—Eleven present. We have a quorum. Item 3. Moment of Silence and the Pledee ofAlle, ie ance Item 4. Minutes a. Regular Council Meeting—January 22,2008 President Letellier—Do we have a motion? Moved by Councilor Perry and Rheault, seconded by Councilor Messick. All those in favor say Ay? Opposed? Ten Yes, One Abstain (Councilor Simpson) • Item 5. Declaration from Council President Item b. Presentation of Petitions,Memorials& Remonstrances (a) Resolutions 1._ TR-2008-1 -A Resolution Appropriating from the Community Preservation Fund and Authorizing the Expenditure of Community Preservation Funds for the Creation Construction and Preservation of Land as a Park for Recreational use on Property Owned by the City of Agawam and Located at Meadowbrook and Valle brook CPA • Councilor Rheault—Madam President I suggest a one minute recess to allow the people to leave if they want to? President Letellier— That's fine. We'll have a one minute recess. I ask the council not • to leave your seats. Thank you. (RECESS) Again, we have TR-2008-1. Do we have a motion? Moved by Councilor Simpson, seconded by Councilor Perry. I see that we have some Community Preservation Act members here and Chris Sparks from the Parks& Rec Department, do we have a motion to go into committee as a whole? Councilor Simpson—Before we do that,could I give the report we had a meeting? • President Letellier—Certainly. Yes. Councilor Simpson—Okay. Thank you. On Monday evening the CPA Sub-Committee of the council met at the Agawam Public Library at 6:30. In attendance at the meeting were committee members George Bitzas, Jill Messick and myself as chairperson. Also in attendance was Henry Kozloski from the CPA and Louis Russo. A couple members of the public were there and uh, a couple of the councilors also sat in at the meeting. The item of discussion was the appropriation of$12,000.00 for architectural design for two • neighborhood parks, Meadowbrook and Valleybrook. During the discussion, it came up that, one of the questions that was raised by Councilor Bitzas, was there definitely a need for the CPA to spend $12000 investment in a professional master plan? We had Mr. Kozloski and Mr. Russo addressed some of those issues at the meeting, however Chris Sparks was not there and I apologized for that. Barbara was kind enough to organize this meeting for me since I missed the last council meeting and was sick. And Chris Sparks I believe was not on the cc list and that was just an oversight. Oh he was? Okay, but um, we apologize anyhow for any misunderstanding or not getting a memo or whatever, it was just, if it happened, it was an oversight. Anyhow, what we had decided after much discussion, whether there was a need to have this, to send this appropriation of money; it * had also come up about some help grants, being able to get those if we did a professional design. The committee decided to not vote because of the open questions and I said that I would get in touch the next day with Chris Sparks to see if he could answer some of the questions that we had come up with. And I spoke to Chris the next day and I asked him to send a memo to us, I like having things in memo form as opposed to trying to come back word for word of what everyone said. I believe everyone received the memo on their desk tonight. So our committee did not take a formal vote on recommendation because at that time we did have open questions. After speaking with Chris Sparks and reviewing over his memo, I feel that there is definitely a need for this. This is one of the good uses for the CPA to do. We have a lot of parks, we have our School Street park starting up, we've done some good things on cleaning up and getting some other parks all • set in town, been extremely, extremely long overdue with getting the parks in shape and getting some new ones. The need for the parks has been good. But, this is a small little thing. It's town-owned property. We didn't have to acquire property. We didn't have to buy a property and it was needed and expressed by people in the community to establish these small neighborhood parks wherever possible. The opportunity to have a place for the local children to go safely, to ride their bike or to walk to for more or less passive recreation as opposed to planned, organized activities like Little League, soccer and etc. which our bigger parks tend to be used for, this is a chance to have playscapes in the area, basketball court, maybe some picnic tables etc. for the people in that.specific area to use and for kids riding through with their bikes to be able to stop and use. I know I had 0 expressed at the meeting that this is something that I would have loved years back to have had in my neighborhood for my children to just be able to ride their bikes safely to. We can state the fact that we have all these other parks that people can go to but they're not easily accessible for people if you don't live specifically in that area. I had brought up the question about once these parks are in place, like anything else we're doing,how are • we going to maintain them? Because once we spend the money on these parks, we don't want to be five years down the road saying we can't use them now because they're overgrown, or the equipment has dilapidated or whatever has happened to them. We i want to keep them up, we want to keep them online and we want them to be able to be used for quite a long time. I also had addressed that to Chris Sparks and he said that we • would be noticing when we start our budget review that things have been put in motion and in place for maintenance for the parks. So that makes me feel better that it hopefully will be in place,hopefully that our Mayor will have the foresight to keep those into the budget and produce them to us and that we will have the foresight to make sure that we keep those line items in for maintenance because what good is it to build a park if you don't maintain it? So, as I said, after reading the memo, I would express as Chairperson myself as putting a positive recommendation to the committee to vote for this appropriation of funds. At this time, if my other committee members would like to weigh in on this, like I said because we just got this memo tonight, um, I would ask through the chair, that we be able to do that. Thank you. President Letellier—Councilor Bitzas? Councilor Bitzas—Yes, uh, first of all, I do support the park in, for the neighborhoods. It's a good idea to have open space, for the families to go there and have recreation, have • a picnic, cook, the kids can play,just for the neighborhood. It's a park, a small park,the one park is 15 acres the other is 5 acres but I do disagree with Councilor Simpson's recommendation for positive recommendation for Council. I am for the parks to be created with CPA money but not to spend$12,000.00 to have somebody to do a design for that park. $12,000.00 is not small little thing. It's $12,000.00—it's a lot of money which half of the money comes from our pocketbooks and the other half comes from state pocketbook which also is taxpayers' money. We have to wise how to spend the CPA money into the studies. I don't mind to see this money go to the park and this would be—the best thing for this Council to allow for this money to go into the park, the $12,000.00, we don't look for any big, big extravagant park, we're looking for a little playground, five acres park, fifteen acres park, little playground and diamond for the kids to play a little baseball, and a basketball. That's it. I can plan that. I can design that for nothing. As the gentleman said before, said he can't see either,the way we spend the money like this,he spoke at citizen's speak time, and I agree with him. Not only this, we have DPW to do the study. Jack Stone said here in the memo "although the town engineer could do the topography", so he can do the topography, "and drainage, the design of recreational facilities, are not a civil engineers scope of expertise". What expertise? It's not huge park that we need big expertise. And in town, we have a DPW with engineer department; we can't have expertise to do a small park for free because they already get paid doing that, their work? Why you spend an extra$12,000.00 to have somebody else, for another town to come and tell us how to do it? Let the people in the neighborhood tell us what they want and then we design it for them for free. I'd help them. Another thing is if you apply for self, urban-self grant, you don't have to have for this fencing $12,000.00 study to apply. We can apply without it. And another thing is if we put this park, small park, to a bid, the companies that have landscapes, they can do that themselves. They have people that can clean up the area and put the landscape there and grade that and the town can go there and put a blacktop into it. Why you spend the a money for a study? That's my problem. My problem is not for the park. I love to see the neighborhood have a park. I love to see the residents tell us what they want to put in there and we could do it for free. And the CPA money can put the money to improve the park and make it nice. So I'm for the parks, I'm for the neighborhood parks but not for • $12,000.00 to a study. We did the same thing with Captain Leonard House. We spent $25,000.00 for a study and Councilor Rossi questioned it too. We didn't even know it was for a study. Now this is, it is a study, the $12,000.00, it's not to create the park. Thank you. President Letellier—Thank you. Anyone else on the Park & Rec Committee want to address the issue? Councilor Messick? Councilor Messick—Um, in reference to the $12,000.00 uh,you said that Jack Stone um, spoke with you about the possibility of having our engineering department design the • parks, Jack also went on to say, I'm quoting this memo that"the engineering department is down one engineer and they have a backlog of projects." So, it's also a question of timing. These parks have been neglected. They're town-owned property that have been neglected for quite a while. They are currently a priority within our five-year plan for our Open Space and Recreation Plan. These things were, were requested by residents um, • and a survey from all over town,the response came back, yes, the people are very interested in having small, neighborhood parks. There was a lot of support for that. I appreciate your offering, you willingness to work, you know, to work, and to, to help out with the design,but um, the other part of what Chris is saying here is that our current School Street Park project manager said their company doesn't build parks without plans from certified architects. So it's not just going for a self-help grant which we may or may • not get unless we present a professional request package. We also may not be able to find a contractor to perform the work unless we have a certified architect's design. So, these are some reasons I concur with the CPA and with, and with Chris Sparks that the $12,000.00 is a good investment urn, to come up with a good plan. Part of the process, part of the service that would be rendered with this, is having meetings with people in the uh, in the area, who will be using it, who will be able to provide input on what it is that they want and I think that that's a valuable service as well. So I'm in full support of the $12,000.00. Thank you. President Letellier— Thank you. Does the council want to have the members appear and speak? Do the members want to appear and speak? Councilor Calabrese—Yes, I'd like to move to go into Committee as a Whole. President Letellier— Okay, moved by Councilor Calabrese, seconded by Councilor Mineo. All in favor please signify by saying Ay. Opposed? Abstentions? Gentlemen, do you wish to express? Mr. Sparks? Chris Sparks—Good evening everybody. I want to apologize for not attending Monday night's meeting. I was not made aware of it either through an oversight of my own or through the, through Barbara, I'm not sure, I'm not pointing fingers. I'm just apologizing that I was not there. Um, I was quite surprised that the phone calls that I got on Tuesday and I immediately got on the phone call, on the phone with um, quite a few of the M r councilors who were at the meeting so I could talk to them about this specific issue. Um, my memo sums it up quite clearly and all of you have received it and all of you have read it. Past history has dictated that this approach works and it works well. Hiring a certified licensed landscape architect to do this work, to work with the neighborhood, to work with the town to properly plan not just the park and where we're gonna place the playscape or where we're gonna place something, but to plan the park thoroughly with the continuity of the neighbor hood is more than anyone sitting on that stage is capable of doing, nor is it anything I'm capable of doing. Part of my job is knowing my limitations and trying to pretend that I'm a landscape architect is something I will never do. With that I suggest that we move forward, we hire a certified architect, we get the proper plans. From there we have the information that we can then decide how to move forward with the project. That's all I have unless you have questions. President Letellier—Thank you. Any questions? Councilor Bitzas? Councilor Bitzas—Yes, Chris, I commend you for the good work that you do for the town. I'm in favor of the neighborhood parks but I'm not happy with the $12,000.00 if we spend for studies of two neighborhood parks because if we spend now $12,000.00 for 5 and 15 acres parks then we would spend for the other neighborhood parks next year or next month. What are you planning to do in the park,the five acre park and what do you plan to do in the 15 acre park to have such elaborate master plan? The question is I can't understand in School Street Park, we need that no question about it, a large area yes. But I thought those neighborhood parks, we have no parking,no parking at all, nobody can go • there except the neighborhood, they're going to walk and go down there and enjoy it, which is fine. If you have fifteen kids, I mean fifteen families, forty kids, fifty kids, whatever there are, excellent idea. Why do we have to spend for a study? Why don't you ask the neighborhoods? Do they like basketball and a diamond enough? Because the five acres you cannot put anything ... Chris Sparks —Are you asking or are you answering your own question? Councilor Bitzas—This is the question. Chris Sparks—Okay. Councilor Bitzas— So, did you ask the neighbors what they want first before you spend $12,000.00? a Chris Sparks—George, if you read the package, part of the package includes the master plan,the landscape architect holding two public meetings with these neighborhoods so they can ask the neighbors what they want. I don't have any plans for the park. My plan is to have the certified architect run public meetings with the abutters, with the neighborhoods, with the town officials to explore the Options that we want and the neighborhood wants. So I do not have any plans because I am not going to force my thoughts on the neighbors. I want to explore the neighbors' thoughts. • • Councilor Bitzas—Alright. I don't want to see somebody to pay $12,000.00 to ask the questions of the neighbors. I want the neighbors to come to us for free. A second • questions is did you talk to the engineering department? And it said down here that they have no time to do it? I mean we have, we pay... Chris Sparks—George... Councilor Bitzas— I didn't finish my question. President Letellier-- Gentlemen. Gentlemen. Let's remember that you are in fact gentlemen. Let Councilor Bitzas finish the question and then you, Mr. Sparks,may answer it. • Councilor Bitzas —Don't get offended. I'm just asking questions. We pay DPW to do a job. Did they ask them and they say no they could not do the study? Because I see this, the plan, the design, very, very simple. I can do that myself. I could do it for nothing. Why spend $12,000,00? I'm not against the park but I'm against spending the • $12,000.00. I think it's a waste. Thank you. Chris Sparks—My memo states that I did speak with Jack Stone who is the head of all DPW including Engineering. When. I spoke with Jack, he said that this is the first he had heard of it and his sentiments are expressed in the memo that it is not their level of expertise and they are short-staffed and they do have a backlog of projects. Councilor Bitzas—Thank you Chris. President Letellier—Councilor Rossi? �1 Councilor Rossi—Yes, I would like to know if you have a commitment for maintenance on these parks. Chris Sparks---Way back when we started the School Street project, maintenance was a question and I believe it was started by yourself, Bob. In the current budget as I've said ! to all the City Councilors, I implore you to make sure that the funding is in place for School Street. When you see the six, um, the city budget come before you, you're gonna see that there is an increase in staff, in labor, in equipment, in maintenance and equipment, and in materials. These two neighborhood parks could be included in the um, budget increase that you're gonna see this year. Over the years, we've added a number of parks without any increase in maintenance or DPW allowances. This year you're gonna see a big increase which these two parks could become part of Councilor Rossi—Are you answering my question? Is there a commitment from maintenance? # Chris Sparks —Right now we don't have a commitment to build the parks! But if... • • Councilor Rossi—But don't we need to have some kind of commitment to maintain it? Chris Sparks—Not if we do an exploration and we decide not to build. Councilor Rossi—The reason I ask and... Chris Sparks—If we—to answer your question, if we haven't decided to build, so how • do we have a commitment to maintain something we haven't committed to build? Councilor Rossi—Well, shouldn't we have some of our ducks in a row to find out down the road if and when we build this, there is a mechanism in place to maintain it? • Chris Sparks —When we come back, exploring for funds to build the parks, I think that's a more appropriate time for that question. Councilor Rossi— So we need to spend $12,000.00 before we can find out if we got maintenance to take care of it? Is that what you're saying? Chris Sparks— We have to spend $12,000.00 to find out if we're even gonna build this. Councilor Rossi—Well that's what I'm saying to you. So we've gotta spend$12,000.00 to find out if we got a commitment to maintain it? Is that what we need to spend? • Chris Sparks —Yes, Bob. I will commit to maintain a park that's not built and might not ever be built. If that's what you're looking for, I will commit to maintain that park that might not ever be built. Councilor Rossi—No, Chris, what I'm asking you to do is maintain the parks that we already have because these parks are in disarray because there is no maintenance. Now I went down there and took a look at those parks. Those... President Letellier— Gentlemen, Gentlemen. • Chris Sparks—I uh... Councilor Rossi— ...basketball courts are falling apart. The concrete, the asphalt is all cracking and the place is in disarray because there hasn't been any maintenance there for several years. Now my question is if we're gonna go spend $12,000.00 on a plan to design it and probably throw another$20,000.00 into building it, shouldn't we have some sort of a commitment to maintain it? Isn't that a logical question? Chris Sparks —As I just told you, yes we have a commitment to maintain it if it's built. Councilor Rossi— We do? • Chris Sparks—We have a commitment to build it? You, you... Councilor Rossi---I don't have no other questions. Chris Sparks—You, you're asking something...you're putting the cart before the horse. Councilor Rossi- I don't think I am at all. Chris Sparks—Okay. I... Councilor Rossi - I'm asking you a very simple question. Why should we commit this kind of money if we're not going to take care of it? Because historically, we haven't done that. i Chris Sparks--I think your questions are better served for Mr. Stone and the Mayor because I am not in charge of Park Maintenance. I work with them but not for therm... Councilor Rossi - I understand that Chris but what I'd like to see is to have you BE in charge of Park Maintenance that way there we could get some kind of a handle on it. Why should the DPW Department be in charge of maintenance when you're-the Park& Recs Director? Shouldn't you be in charge of maintenance? Shouldn't that be in your budget? Chris Sparks—Shouldn't I be in charge of all park development? • Councilor Rossi - Yes, I think you should. Chris Sparks—Well, historically I have not been. Councilor Rossi - Well, I think that that's a tragedy and I think that it should be corrected. Chris Sparks—So do I. President Letellier—Councilor Cavallo had his light on next. Councilor Cavallo—Yea. I was gonna discuss the same point. I can recall when in this town I was working for the federal government and the summer youth employment program, Chris, and I don't know you that well, at that time Valley Park didn't exist. The street didn't exist. And I used to have to visit that site, we had some kids.,.the attendance there during the summer was absolutely zero. I'm sure you've done some studies and so forth and that street I know exactly where it is. I'm more familiar with that than the one in.Feeding Hills. We had very poor attendance there. My concern is I hope your survey is pretty accurate and the people are buying into this, I guess you have done that and spoke with the people that live on the street. But my question is not only do you, as Bob pointed out, the maintenance issue because I can recall being on the School Committee getting some calls from people who live in town not knowing that I'm not on • • the Council,that on the weekends there's rubbish piling and so forth maybe there aren't enough maintenance workers to pick up trash and so forth, but the other issue is a safety • issue with the police department. I think now you're adding two more parks that they have to supervise because they are in areas that are pretty secluded and there's always gonna be problems down there especially during the summer nights. My concern is, is possible if this goes ahead and comes to fruition that maybe the public safety people,the police department, should be involved,the safety officer or whatever, to let them know Hey, you know,these are secluded areas, I'm sure they know, and they would have to be patrolled and it's a safety issue. But really that's one issue but I am concerned as Bob pointed out, the maintenance, and I know your heart is in the parks, I'm not questioning that, I don't know you that well, but that would be of concern to me, again, like placing the cart before the horse. I know you have to do the study first before you can talk about maintenance and all that but if it goes in the budget, what if it's cut after we go that far? It could be right? We don't know what's happening with the state reimbursements we're getting, or whatever, and so forth and so on, and it's possible is it not that will happen? So again, I have some concerns about it but uh, I'll reserve the others for later. Thank you. President Letellier— I just want to remind the Council that this portion is Question and Answer and NOT discussion. We will certainly have opportunity for discussion. Councilor Rheault? Councilor Rheault—Yea. I visited both of these locations and they've both deteriorated in my opin...well be sight to the point that you wonder, what are we doing with these? Why the interest all of a sudden? The, um, they were both laid out for basketball, and one was laid out for baseball and overgrowth on both of these so there hasn't been any maintenance and I don't, I'm really having a difficult time pursuing, spending$12,000.00 to, um, for another study to show what history has proven that both of these parks have • deteriorated with no activity. I've been here long enough and there's been no human cry to develop these so I just, I share Bob's and Paul's comments regarding the maintenance, we don't see any evidence that these things are being taken care of now so I think it would be compounding the problem by adding to it. • President Letellier—Does any Councilor have any questions for Mr. Sparks. We are in the Question & Answer portion of the meeting? Dennis, Councilor Perry? Councilor Perry—Yes, thank you Madam President through the chair to Chris, thanks for coming tonight, Chris, I appreciate it. Gentlemen. Um,these parks, let's just back up a little bit to the one we're working on now. When is School Street going to be opening? Is that this spring? Chris Sparks—School Street will be finished being constructed this spring and summer and then we'll be opening that late this summer and depending on the weather and the construction, but we've planned the ground, uh, grand opening some time this summer. • Councilor Perry—This summer? Okay. • • Chris Sparks—But there's quite a bit of construction to be completed. • Councilor Perry—No I understand that. I understand that and I know that you know we had designs, a park that size has to be designed, parks this size I'm not sure I may for once in my life, AGREE with Councilor Bitzas! But, uh, are we moving too fast with, with the amount of the parks that we are trying to put into the community. I mean I understand you know the need for them and yeah I'd love to have one in my neighborhood too and I'm sure everybody in town would love to have one. But I mean shouldn't we be taking this one step at a time. Let's get School Street underway. Let's see how the maintenance is going on that. You know, and I understand this is just the planning stage and it could be two years down the road before this even comes into • construction type thing, but you know we have a huge project down there that we're working on and I would like to see that and any money that may be needed that could, you know, be gotten from the CPA, use there first right at this point in time. I mean that's my question to you, are we moving too fast on these small neighborhood parks? Let's get this big one underway first. • Chris Sparks—I say we're not moving fast enough for the neighborhood parks. Um, they've been asking for this probably longer than we've started planning the School... Councilor Perry—Again, there's, and I understand... • Chris Sparks— ...you asked a question and I said I don't think we're moving fast enough. If you read some of the emails and the memos from the people, they date back more than a year and a half... Councilor Perry—I understand that and we all have a wish list too and I'd like to have • my street repaved too, you know, I mean every neighbor, and the neighbors that were here tonight would like sewers but not have to pay for them. You guys can't fund sewers, can you? You know what I mean Chris? I know where I'm coming from... Chris Sparks—If you look at the use, there's completely separate uses for the • neighborhood park versus a regional park like School Street or a citywide park like School Street. The difference is I have a nine year old son. If I had a neighborhood park that was within three hundred yards of my house without going down River Road, I would send him after school out to that neighborhood to play. I wouldn't send my son if I lived on Meadowbrook half a mile down River Road to go play at School Street. The • difference is neighborhood parks are designed for the neighborhoods, for the immediate neighborhoods, for the kids to enjoy and use. To go back to the point where you can say, come home when the street lights come on. Parents aren't gonna say that in today's day and age if they have to travel half a mile or a mile down the road to School Street or the people in, up in Feeding Hills in the Valleybrook area have to travel over a mile down to Granger which is their closest playground. It's a way for the local neighborhood kids to • have a place to go and play without having to be carted by mom and dad under the safety, and worry about the safety of busy roads and distances that they're not gonna be allowed • to do anymore. You know, thirty years ago, when I was a kid, I was on a bike and I was three or four miles away from home... # Councilor Perry—And I understand that...exactly...and I wish each school... Chris Sparks—My kid's not more than a hundred yards from my house. Councilor Perry— ...each school had a summer program with the parks where the kids all went to. So Officer Chimielewski drove around. He was the safety officer at that time and would go to the parks. I understand that but we're never gonna get back to those days Chris because number one you're never gonna get the kids out of the house enough away from the computers to go down there and play basketball. But my point, that what I am saying is we've got a huge project right now... Chris Sparks —Yes we do. Councilor Perry—We can't and you can put all you want for maintenance of that park in the budget but it hasn't been passed yet and it hasn't been approved yet by your, you • know DPW, the Mayor and the new administration and everything else. I'm saying we need to take it slow and save this money that maybe can be used... Chris Sparks---Following this path, part of the things I was blamed for was taking it too slow on School Street. When you apply for an Urban Self-Help Grant... • Councilor Perry--Let's finish School Street first. Chris Sparks—Remember, if we apply for and get an urban self help grant, the first fiscal year is for design which that would be Fiscal Year 09 which would be July of this year to June of next year, so we're not even starting construction until July of 010 or '10. So we're still two years away from construction so you ask if we're taking it too fast, I think planning that's construction is two years down the line is just the opposite. I think we're moving at the right speed as opposed to all the times I've come before you saying we need to do this because if we don't do it under this deadline we're gonna lose funding. For once we're acting proactively and in a timely fashion and now I'm being accused of going too fast? Councilor Perry— ... Chris Sparks— So a project that's two years down the road, now I'm being accused of going too fast. When I do it the other way, I'm accused going too slow, so...I'm living a double edged sword here. Councilor Perry—That's fine Chris. President Letellier—The next Councilor is Councilor Calabrese. • Councilor Calabrese—I have a question for Henry. Henry Kozlowski - I'll take it. Councilor Calabrese - Henry could you just catch us up on how much is available in CPA funds? Henry Kozloski - Total? It's $1.8 million in the account of which$1.6 million is usable at this time. That does not include the last tax bill. We don't all get the information. Councilor Calabrese - Okay. Henry Kozloski—Uh, there's, I think there's a few things where you're missing. And I really believe this and you can sit there...I've been involved in this now for six years. We've started several projects. Maynard Street,Perry Lane Bridge and they took forever because the town was supposed to do it. Maynard Street took two and a half years to complete. Perry Lane is not, the bridge is not completed yet in my opinion. In the front there should be a little, there shouldn't be a little bump in the way that people can trip on. We did Borgatti Park. We bought the playscape from the company, they installed it. In seventy-two hours, it was usable by the residents of Agawam. That's very important. Not waiting two years,three years. Now when we went to do Borgatti,I did go to the maintenance people and say, are we taking money out of your pocket for overtime or whatever? They don't want to do it. They told that to me point blank. Because I went there, I didn't want to take money out of anybody's pocket because they work for the town. Plus they don't have the expertise. One of the things you have to be aware of— every single park by law but also by the CPA committee has to be handicapped accessible for everybody. We have another, you know, there is another project in the works on playgrounds. We want to upgrade every school playground at the elementary schools. We passed it and then we found out it did not meet ADA. I was embarrassed because we thought we, we put everything on hold because we're gonna do it right. We're gonna make a playground safe for the children, it's gonna require some sidewalks and everything else,we've gotta do it right. You know,nothing against the Engineering Department, I mean I could go down and plan that thing and say well I can plan this and I can plan that. I don't have the expertise for ADA. You know even to this day, and I did say something today, you know...McGrath Park is not fully ADA acceptable. It does not have handicap parking. That's wrong! This town should make sure we do everything where everybody can use it. Secondly, under the open space plan, federal guidelines, state guidelines, we do not meet anywhere near close to having the parks we should have. You talk about Valleybrook, the closest park to that is thirty-six hundred feet away from edge of Valleybrook. And that is Granger School. If anybody wanted to use it, they'd have to go down North Westfield Street, cross over North Street and North Street Extension, all the way down, cross over through the, which is probably the worst intersection in town and get to the park. If I was a parent, I'd say no way. I mean somebody has to, I mean I've looked at this. There's over, there's fifty some odd kids in the Valleybrook area not counting on the other side of North Westfield Street. And I couldn't count North Westfield Street because I didn't have the numbers. I didn't have time to do it. I do have the numbers. These are only elementary students and middle school. Not high school and not students below school grade. There is not one single park in the northwest corner of Agawam in Feeding Hills. The only park we have in that area is Granger School. And if people from Hendom Heights wanted to come down and use it, they would have to come down over there on South Westfield Street which is a very dangerous street. So we have to start doing neighborhood parks. We're supposed to, the CPA Committee is supposed to be proactive, looking at the needs of the town. If we're gonna put everything, I live toward the center of town, but my duty is for everybody, not for just the people near School Street. And School Street is a multiple use field where there will be teams coming from out of town to play, so on some days that park could be filled up. Where do you go? We have to develop neighborhood parks. The Open Space Plan says this is a very important need. It's not some idea of my own. I was on this committee but, we listened to a lot of people and the citizens had input to the open space plan. This plan is something we should look at and see if this is what we want. You know, if you want to wait, wait five years, you're still not gonna have parks in those areas. And I think we have to think of providing recreation for all of our citizens. I mean that's you know, I would hope that we do this. And we do it because I'll be honest, I'm not only looking at Valleybrook, Meadowbrook, and the elementary schools, I'm looking for anybody in town to come to us and say geez we'd like to have a neighborhood park. We've got the ability to do it. And we should do it. That's my firm belief. I think it's a community responsibility to make Agawam the best community we can make and afford and I will answer the question on maintenance. When we did School Street, we do ask that question. And Chris Sparks is right. You cannot put money into the budget for School Street until the park is finished. Then you'll know the cost. I mean like you talk about Meadowbrook. Meadowbrook, they do mow the lawn there. Valleybrook is wooded. That's...but there is maintenance at Meadowbrook. They mow it but then what we have to do is we have to get the neighborhoods, saying listen it's your park, you gotta help take care of it. The people own Agawam, they should be responsible for their neighborhood park. Anything else you want to ask me? I do get, I am very serious about this... President Letellier—Any questions for Mr. Kozloski? Councilor Young? Councilor Young—I'll ask. I was gonna ask Chris but I think I can ask Henry just as well. So, as I recall, so the question, like I said I think I'm not sure of the studies you're talking about but I know when Chris was hired ten years ago under Mayor Johnson, we formed.a committee that I think started with you know some recommendations like School Street Park and things like that. And I believe at the time, one of the, and I believe these were used as reasons why we would go ahead and spend the money from all sources and cobble it altogether the way we did to get that off the ground and it took several years and it's still going and you know, Pm its biggest fan `cuz we'll certainly drive all the way from the southwest corner of Feeding Hills to I think we're closest to Granger, so we have that in the way. But we'll, we travel everywhere. So we would be using it quite frequently. But I thought one of the things that sold that as part of the thing that sold that to this Council was the fact that the idea of maintaining little parks all over town was much more costly than having a big central park that would ease the burden on r the maintenance. I mean, I guess that's the question, I could have, I could swear that was one of the justifiers for the big park. • Henry Kozloski—I was not involved in that. My answer, my answer is that if you live in the furthest distance from School Street and you have to travel that far, then you don't have a neighborhood park. Councilor Young—Well, there's no question. I, and I don't know that I need or want one but my kids are in the ice rink ninety percent of their lives anyways so we certainly wouldn't use it, but so I guess I,we're constantly caught, my ten years up here, caught in every little project that comes up, one I mean we spend a lot more time arguing over thousands of dollars you know than we ever spend on millions of dollars for again, for a few people. But, so I guess, again,the question is, and maybe it's more appropriate for Chris, I think if we went back and looked, one of the justifiers for the big park that we're still paying and will be paying for and supporting is the, is that we're trying to get away from the small parks. They've all overgrown, they can't maintain them anyway. Let's have a big one, centralized that folks would congregate at and we could better support. So it's a statement and maybe I'm answering my own question as well. Henry Kozloski—I can answer. I tell you I really can answer it having been involved in athletics, some in Agawam but mostly in West Springfield, is that if you take the big baseball diamonds whether at American Legion, Babe Ruth or whatever,they're not usable for the kid who wants to go out and have a pickup game `cux most of the time 0 they're used quite a few nights a week. The softball fields are used by the adults at night and they're very, well, you have to look at it...If I want to go out and play ball, as you can at Meadowbrook as there is a small diamond there,that's about the only place in town I can't... • Councilor Young--Well, you couldn't because there's no where to park, unless you live there and... Henry Kozloski—That's what this is. This is a neighborhood park. Councilor Young—Well, but you're, so that defeats your argument. I'm not here to argue with you. Henry Kozloski—No, it doesn't. 0 Councilor Young—So, my other question is I would also challenge the statement that I'm responsible for forecasting and budgeting for maintenance and staffing for things that aren't built yet, aren't completed yet, you know, much bigger than what you're talking about. And so the fact that and I think ultimately what I heard is the commitment's on the folks up here to pass the budget and have to approve a budget increase, an increase in the tax factor so, I know we're trying to pin down these guys doing their job, you know, 0 did you get commitment on the maintenance I think the answer is no. We have a commitment to put it in the budget so that we can make the commitment to fund it. And a then we're just told that the guys putting it in can't forecast until it's done, I mean so I guess that maybe its cost will be. So I guess I'm not too sure how good those numbers will be either based on that. Henry Kozloski—Then I suppose we shouldn't do anything in town. I mean that's the answer. If you're worrying about that, let's not, then let's not finish School Street. Let's not do anything in town. That's what you're saying. I'm not getting into an argument. • I'm just looking at facts. Things move forward. We're getting more residents in town, believe me, everyone of these people here tonight, I've probably been on their property when the things were being built, and I've been in Agawam and many places and all parts of Agawam, wetlands, developments and everything else, and the town in being developed whether you like it or not and if we cannot provide the service, fine then tell the people. I have no problem with that but you know if we're gonna stand still, if you don't move ahead, you fall behind. That's the nature of the world. Now, fine and you know, I mean, you ask me a question, I will tell you. If Agawam does not move ahead, we will fall behind and we will not be the town we should be. And if we don't have that foresight to look ahead, I'm glad that uh, one of the presidents, Theodore Roosevelt, was smart enough to save the parks that we have,the national parks. If he didn't do that, we wouldn't have them today. And they're all in disarray because obviously we spend money in other places. They're our treasures. They are the treasures of Agawam. Whether...I've looked at School Street as something that the town did that they could look forward to,but that's only in one end of town. There are many parts of town where these kids don't have the opportunity and that's what we gotta look at. I'm willing to go • anywhere in town and listen to anybody and the people have a right to ask for this. I mean, that's life. If we want to stand still, fine, I can accept that but as a person who looks to what Agawam should be and I wasn't born here, but I tell you one thing. I like living here and I believe we should do what we can that's best for the citizens. And this is what the CPA project is for but you know it's your decision and you have that right. I • have no problem with that but we have to look at the future. Councilor Young—Henry, Henry, last question, what was the official vote of the CPA on this proposal? Henry Kozloski—I'd have to say of the people there, it was 8-0. Councilor Young—In favor? Henry Kozloski—In favor. Councilor Young—Okay thank you. President Letellier—Any other questions? Councilor Calabrese—I have a question. • President Letellier—Okay. • r Councilor Calabrese—Okay. Since these parks are going to, first of all, actually I guess this is a two-part question. Are these parks going to be able to be made handicapped accessible? And if not, do we still qualify for Urban Self-Help Grants? And I'll turn off my light. Chris Sparks—They will be made accessible. And the certified landscape architects will ensure that they are which is more expertise than 1 can say that I have to plan a park. Is that both parts? The other part with the urban self help program, one of the most important factors to apply for the urban self help grant is a professional opinion of probably cost. Well, anyone of us here can take footprint of a baseball diamond and put it down on a piece of paper and say we should put the baseball diamond here, I'm not qualified to say how much that diamond will cost to move the earth, to re-grade it, to make sure when we re-grade that earth that water doesn't end up in people's backyards and basements. I'm not qualified to say how much the fencing's gonna cost. I'm not a professional estimator and part of this application will give us that professional opinion of probable cost which is very important for us to get an urban self help grant as well as CPA funding. I've been turned away from CPA for not having proper bids of costs estimates and opinion of probable cost and told to go back and get them and have actually been delayed in the process. Again,talking about the speed of this project,we're two years out from construction following the urban self help guidelines that we are eligible to get. And the biggest thing that spurred me was last year, Melissa Crion from the Executive Office of Environmental Affairs who oversees the current urban self help grant • we have for a half million dollars, emailed me to say Duval Patrick's goal is to put more neighborhood parks into each city in the commonwealth. Outwardly, she very clearly said Agawam is a city and they would qualify and get a favorable recommendation following Governor Duval Patrick's goal of putting more neighborhood parks which is why I looked at that time, a year ago, and said we're not ready, I'm not physically ready to put together this grant application. At the same time when the neighborhoods were approaching me to build these parks, I almost bankrupted the CPA. We had to borrow into an upcoming fiscal year because School Street was using all available resources to get School Street built. So, at that point, funding wasn't available. CPA's been wonderful. They've allowed us to do more things in town than we've ever been able to • do without going directly into the tax payers' or without into the General Fund, without coming out of the City tax budget, allowing us to go into this specified fund for these specific purposes. Projects like this are exactly why the people of Agawam voted the CPA into existence and this is the type of project that CPA should be supporting. • President Letellier—Any other questions? Councilor Bitzas—My last question. President Letellier—Councilor Bitzas, you've spoken twice. Do you have a question? Councilor Bitzas—Yes. President Letellier— Okay. Councilor Bitzas—The last question. Chris, if we don't vote in favor for this $12,000.00 plan design, can you still continue to go to Jack Stone and ask him to give the cost, what the town can cost to make it and apply? Chris Sparks—I would have to ask the Mayor what her recommendation is. Councilor Bitzas - Thank you. President Letellier—Any other questions? No? Do we have a motion to come out of committee as a whole? Moved by Councilor Simpson, seconded by Councilor Rossi. All i in favor of coming out of Committee as a Whole signify by saying Ay. Opposed? Abstentions? Thank you for your time gentlemen. Does the Council wish to have further discussion? No? Councilor Rossi? Councilor Rossi—I would. I think that the neighborhood parks are a wonderful thing and I'm in favor of them. I know that the gentlemen down here they take offense to some of the things that I say and it wasn't meant to be personal. You're talking about that we need to get these parks built before we can attach maintenance schedules for them. But at some point,this council or other councils have appropriated money for these parks. Where was the maintenance attachment to that? I mean this park here is something like we've built scapes down there, we've built a ball diamond down there, we've built • basketball courts down there and they fell into disarray. Well, where was the maintenance plan on that and that was my question here? We're asked to come up with a $12,000.00 design and that in and of itself doesn't really bother me a whole lot. What bothers me is that we have concerned citizens down there who want this park,who I didn't see any involvement or any of their participation on their needs or wants in that park, we have supposedly a Citizen's Project Manager, I see nothing from that person or her organization as to what the needs or wants are in the neighborhood and I know that it goes just beyond more than just building a playscape or a play area down there. I know that there's handicap issues that would have to be addressed. There's right of way issues that have to be addressed. There's public safety issues that have to be addressed. Right now at Meadowbrook, you can't even drive a motor vehicle into there. You're gonna have to make access roads for emergency vehicles to go in there. You're gonna need to put lighting in there `cuz if you don't, you're gonna create another albatross like you did up at Shea's Field. I know that there's a lot of issues but my point is before things like this come to this Council, why can't we get as much information on what the wants and needs are especially when we're talking about the small neighborhood groups. I don't S think that's a lot to ask. Then if we have to send them out for designs and have somebody, or architecture built, then we'd do it but we're going into this thing blind and then we don't have any idea as to how we're going to maintain it or anything else and I think that's crazy. Now if it takes a vote to get this $12,000.00 to get that off the ground, but I would like to see some changes made here that's all I'm asking for. Something that • gives us some assurances that these parks aren't gonna fall into disarray within a year or two after we've done, after we're through with it. That's all I'm asking. I know we've i got a lot of money. I know what the purpose it and I think it's a good purpose. I think you people do a good job. And as I said before Chris I meant what I said that I think you have to get more control over your department and that way there, we'd be able to narrow it down. I don't see that that happened right now. I mean how can you have one department be responsible for maintaining something that another department builds? I think that's crazy! But if that's what it takes, I'll give my vote but I had to make my peace on that. • President Letellier—Councilor Calabrese Councilor Calabrese—Thank you. Historically, I've been very stingy with CPA Funds and Mr. Kozloski knows more than one time I've voted no on an expenditure. I am in favor of this one however and possibly for a very selfish reason. I do live in that area up in Feeding Hills,just a few streets down from there and I know that neighbors and constituents of mine have spoken about it and they are aware of these plans that are in the works and it is something that is wanted and needed in that area. And so for that reason, I'm gonna be voting yes tonight. i President Letellier—Thank you. Councilor Messick? Councilor Messick—I agree with what Councilor Rossi was saying as far as maintenance goes. It's been discussed quite a lot amongst Conservation members and the CPA and people who are concerned with the parks and with School Street. And a lot of the commissions and committees that work with Beautification and Historical about the maintenance problem and I think that that is something that we need to be proactive in addressing, and maybe we can make a recommendation, make a suggestion...the Mayor about maybe transferring some of the responsibility from the department that its in to Mr. Sparks' department so we can see and make sure that these things are being done. But 1 fl don't see how a concern that's been ongoing, the maintenance of parks, should be a reason to stop this, these parks from becoming a reality. If this vote doesn't occur or if this is voted down, you've got money sitting in an account making no benefit for anyone and you've got two overgrown parks in neighborhoods which are no safer or more dangerous than they would be if they are developed. So I'm very much in favor of this mostly for the reason that I was on the Open Space & Recreation Committee. We made the five year plan. I heard from a lot of people. I saw, I sat there, I went through the surveys and I tallied up what the people wanted. I wanted to make absolutely sure that I understood. Top five—parks. Top three— small parks in their neighborhoods. So I know that there is a need for this whether people knew about this meeting or not or showed up tonight. 1.know there is a need for this. So I'll be voting yes. Thank you. President Letellier—Councilor Simpson? Did you wish to speak? You had your light on. Councilor Simpson—I wasn't but I will. I'm just gonna—two seconds— `cuz we've belabored this now for quite awhile. As I said before I'm voting yes for this. I think with I believe Mr. Kozloski said there was $1.8 million. Is that what you have? And this • is a very small portion of that money that has been set aside for this. This is what the community wanted us to do when we voted to have this fund. So I think they're being proactive. The other thing is I think we can give credit to Park&Rec over the past ten years and to possibly the Council for being more proactive about getting our parks ....getting them cleaned up, getting them taken care of. When I first moved to town twenty, almost twenty-four years, I didn't have children yet, newly married, there was very little. There was no action on parks. There was nothing. My children used to go down the street to a dirt hill and play on it because there was nothing in the neighborhood that was an area where they could all get together and build jumps and ramps and ride their bikes and whatever. So as they say,the old adage, if you build it,they will come. I believe these parks will be used. I believe the kids in the neighborhood, I believe the adults in the neighborhood will use it. So I think with the fact that we are much more aware of maintenance and the abilities to take care of these parks that we're building and the outcry from the people to keep the parks up, I think the demographics have changed over the years and we're much more in tune to it and I think thanks to Chris Sparks and Park & Rec, we've come a long way in what we've done. And now with the Community Preservation Act out there with the funds there, we've also come a really long way and I think those people deserve a lot of credit for pushing forward things that we need. You know you talk about added police well you need them everywhere not just because there's a small park. There's secluded areas of town all over where kids can congregate and whatnot. Police are just gonna have to be allover the town. It's not just because you build a park, you're gonna need extra. You need them everywhere. I actually think the secluded areas are more volatile for problems than if you have a well established park r where people are much more willing to come to. So that's all I have to say on it but I will give my vote as a yes to it tonight. Thank you. President Letellier—Thank you. Councilor Bitzas? Councilor Bitzas—Thank you Mr. President, Madam President. Some councilors, I believe they're missing the point here that a yes vote. A no vote for this one here, excuse me, a no vote for this is not a no vote for the parks. I'm in favor of the parks and I'm on the same committee as Councilor Messick, as she said before the ...for many, many years. We need to have some parks but simple neighborhoods parks, not to spend $12,000.00 for a study for somebody to go tell the neighbors if they like and the neighbors say no we don't like this, we like this or like this and this is a waste of taxpayers' money and of$12,000.00. And even as some councilors said we have enough money--over a million dollars—over a million dollars is for other projects also. It makes no difference if it was one dollar, it is taxpayers' money. So if we spend tonight this money for the study and then go ahead and waste the study and then it comes out that there's a lot of expenses to maintain the park, and Councilor Rossi said, the five-acre park, you have to spend so much money to clear up, make handicap accessible,put lights, for five acres? Why don't you clear up the town...make some plans, see what it costs, what maintenance, and then we have a park down there,very plain, simple and old- 0 fashioned way. Why wouldn't this fancy,this thing here we have brought to us, $12,000.00 and make sure this $12,000.00 is not for the park, it's for a study for the park which we don't need. Thank you. I support the parks anywhere, anytime. • • President Letellier—Thank you. Councilor Young? • Councilor Young—Yes,just a point. Again, and we're gonna have another agenda item on this but you know a theme, this is not a new theme, but a constant theme is you know, we're all, it sounds like many of us are in favor of the parks. There's not a bigger supporter than I am, and definitely a frequent customer of all of the service the Park& • Rec Department here and everywhere else. But again, you know the study doesn't add to it, but again, you know every, come their budget time the staffing and the maintenance...additional staffing, right? You're gonna see those again, and a majority of the folks are gonna go "oh my god!" more money, the budget's bigger, more staff. What is that for? Well, it's no different than some of the things we're gonna vote on in a • second, right? And you're gonna be looking at the finance committee and you're gonna say"Oh my god! Where did this come from?" Well, guess what? Eight of us that were here or nine of us that were here last year, voted you know when you vote on the budget in June, you gotta come pay for it some time and that comes out through the tax factor. So it all comes around and again I mean we can do all the studies, you know you gotta pay to budget for this stuff and get the stuff in the pipeline and it all comes around and to do it right and to keep these things going, you know it comes full circle right back to this group. I just mention that so that you'll hear it again come the spring time as well when we're going through the budget reviews. Thank you. President Letellier---Thank you. Councilor Mineo? Councilor Mineo—I'll make it very brief I am in favor of this. I know Park&Rec works very hard. I've sat on the recreation assessment committee back in 199 and I went through all the, I traveled through all the parks. I remember traveling with Torn Tierney. I think this is a great idea bringing back these parks. I think we're getting a positive • recommendation from the CPA and I appreciate the work they do. I'm gonna be voting in favor of it. President Letellier—Thank you Councilor Rheault? • Councilor Simpson - Move the question... President Letellier—Motion to move the question, seconded. All in favor of moving the question, signify by saying Ay. Opposed? We've moved the question. The item before us is TR-2008-1, a resolution for CPA money, six votes are needed, Barbara could you please call the roll? ROLL CALL— 5 Yes, 6 No. (Councilors Bitzas, Cavallo, Perry, Rheault, Rossi and Young all voting No) President Letellier—With a vote of five yes and six no, you've defeated the Resolution. Item 7. Report of Council Committees • Item 8. Elections Item 9. Public Hearings Item 10. Old Business 2. TO-2007-47 - Transfer$76,196.62 from Salary Reserve (16605- 57350) to the following accounts President Letellier--This was tabled. We need a motion to take it off the table. Moved by Councilors Rheault and Simpson, seconded by Councilor Cavallo. The item was referred to the Finance Committee. Do we have a report from Finance Committee? Councilor Young? Councilor Young—Yes, ma'am. As you received in your packet,the minutes from our meeting on, I can't read the minutes, okay, meeting of Wednesday night, January 30, 2008. I'll just read them for the record. Present were myself as the chair, members of the committee, Robert Rossi and Dennis Perry. Also invited and also in attendance was our Town Auditor, Cheryl St. John. We started at 6:30 as posted and you know I can open it up for questions but basically these three salary reserves were all within the budget that we approved last June. All three percent raises,there's no stipends in there. We verified that and again as you can read there was a unanimous 3-0 vote on all three items and recommend that Council approve those and we were done at 7:30prn and there were no other guests in attendance. President Letellier—Thank you. Any need for discussion? Councilor Rheault has his �► light on first. Councilor Cavallo? Councilor Cavallo —Yes at this point I'd like to make a motion that we approve the TR, the TO-2007-47. I President Letellier—We have a motion, do we have a second? Seconded by Councilor Mineo. Six votes are needed, Barbara, could you please call the roll? ROLL CALL— I 1 Yes, 0 No. President Letellier—With eleven yes, you've approved the transfers in TO-2007-47. 3. TO-2007-48 -Transfer S94,115.00 from Salary_Reserve (16605- 57350) to the following accounts i President Letellier—Again, this was referred to the Finance Committee. Do we have a motion to take it off the table? Moved by Councilors Rheault and Rossi, seconded by Councilor Simpson. Do we have a report by the Finance Committee or is in that in your • prior report? Same report, okay. Do we have a motion on the item? • Councilor Rheault- Move the question. President Letellier - Moved by Councilor Rheault, seconded by Councilor Simpson. Any discussion? No? Seeing none, Barbara, could you please call the roll? ROLL CALL— 11 Yes, 0 No President Letellier—With eleven yes, zero no, you've approved the transfers in TO- 2007-48. S 4. TO-2007-52 -Discussion of elimination of verbatim Council Minutes to outline form. Councilor Youn President Letellier—The item was tabled. The Council Clerk just gave me, I believe it was yesterday or today, some sample minutes from other bodies and towns and so I'll have that go on to the whole council. We can leave the item on the table. If someone wishes to bring it forward, we can take it off the table. Seeing nothing, we'll leave it on the table. 5. TO-2008-1 - CLASS II LICENSES for renewal-Agawam Tire & Auto d/b/a The Car Connection, 820 Springfield Street, Feeding Hills, A MA.; Motor City Car Co. 91 Ramah Circle Agawam,MA. President Letellier--Those were referred to the Licensing Committee. Do we have a motion? Moved by Councilor Cavallo, seconded by Councilor Rossi. Do we have a report from the License Committee? Councilor Rossi—I did not have a chance to call a meeting on these. I had a chance to go over them and I will allow and defer to my other members on the Licensing Committee if they have any issues to bring them forward. But TO-2008-1, -2, and-3, I find no problems or reasons why they shouldn't be granted. The recommendation is positive. President Letellier--Thank you. Any other comments from the Licensing Committee or any other members of the Council? No? Seeing none, Barbara, could you call the roll, six votes are needed. ROLL CALL-- 11 Yes, 0 No. President Letellier—With eleven yes, zero no, you've approved those licenses. 6. TO-2008-2 - Order Grantin2 or Renewing a LICENSE for Automatic Amusement Dcvice(s)— Scoreboard Bar& Restaurant, 12 King Street,Agawam, MA. • President Letellier—Do we have a motion? Moved by the gentlemen to my left, Councilors Rheault, Rossi and Cavallo. Do we have a second? Seconded by Councilor • Simpson? Any discussion? Seeing none, Barbara, could you please call the roll? Six votes are needed. President Letellier-- 11 Yes, O No. President Letellier—With eleven yes, you've approved the license. 7, TO-2008-3 - Order Granting or Renewing a LICENSE for Weekly Amusement Deviee(s)—Springfield Turnverein, 176 Garden Street, Feeding Hills MA. • President Letellier—This was referred to the License Committee. Do we have a motion? Moved by Councilor Rossi, seconded by Councilor Messick. Any discussion? No? Seeing none, Barbara, could you please call the roll. • ROLL CALL — ll Yes, 0 No. President Letellier—With eleven yes, zero no, you've approved the license. 8. TO-2008-4 (ZC-2008-1)(PH-2008-2) - Suggesting a Public Hearing date of February19,2008 for Zone Change for the Property known. as 287 Springfield Street, Feeding Hills,MA., Petitioning the Town of Agawam to Change from Zone RB to Zone BB, as submitted by the Colvest Group, Ltd.,360 Bloomfield Avenue,Windsor, CT. President Letellier— # 9. TO-2008-5 -Voucher List ($258.00) President Letellier—Everyone has signed that. Barbara, could you please...may 1 have a motion? Moved by Councilor Simpson, seconded by Councilor Rheault. Barbara, # could you please call the roll? ROLL CALL— 11 Yes, O No. President Letellier—With eleven yes, you've approved the voucher. • 10. TO-2008-6 - Voucher List ($10897) President Letellier—Everyone has signed it, do we have a motion? Moved by Councilor Simpson, seconded by Councilor Young. Any discussion? Barbara could you please call the roll? ROLL CALL— 11 Yes, 0 No. • President Letellier—Thank you, with eleven yes, you've approved the voucher. • 11. TO-2008-7 -Transfer$18 135.50 from Salary Reserve 16605- 5735) to the following accounts. President Letellier—We've heard the report of the Finance Committee. Do we have a • motion? Moved by Councilor Simpson, seconded by Councilor Messick. Any discussion? Seeing none, Barbara, could you call the roll? ROLL CALL— 11 Yes, 0 No • President Letellier—With eleven yes, zero no, you've passed the transfer. Just a reminder that Item 8 on our Agenda is a Public Hearing for NEXT week, next meeting I should say. We'll move on to New Business. Item 11. New Business 1. TO-2008-8 - Transfer- $30,000.00 from Reserve Fund (16605- 57300) to Veterans Benefits 16604-57104 (Mayor) Maori of Full Council— 6 votes) President Letellier—I'm going to refer that to the Finance Committee, next agenda. • 2. TR-2008-2 -A Resolution Confirming the Appointment of Elaine Awand, 1 Corey Colonial, Agawam, MA. 01001,to the Agawam Planning Board to a Term Expiring on January 1,2013. • President Letellier— I was told by the Mayor this morning that we've had two resignations for the Planning Board. She'll be getting us those letters. Dennis Hopkins has resigned and Frank Meagher has resigned. So we'll need someone else to fill another spot. So that's next agenda. Barbara, could you write her a letter inviting her to the meeting? Thank you. • 3. TO-2008-9 - Order Granting or Renewing a LICENSE for Automatic Amusement Device(s)—Agawam Bowl,359 Walnut Street Extension, Agawam, MA. (Maiority of those present and voting) President Letellier—Refer that to License Committee, next agenda. 4. TO-2008-10 - Order Granting or Renewing a LICENSE_for Automatic Amusement Device(s)—Agawam Bowl, 363 Walnut Street Extension,Agawam,MA. (Majority of those present and voting) President Letellier—We have two different item numbers here, okay two different devices,um, to the License Committee. Oh, two different addresses, oh I'm sorry, you're • i right. Thank you Barbara. 0 5. TO-2008-11 Order Granting or Renewing a LICENSE for an Automatic and Weekly Amusement Device(s)—Alexander's, 60 North Westfield Street, Feeding Hills, MA. (Wority of those present and votin President Letellier-Again, refer that to the License Committee and next agenda. Item 12. Any other matter that maV legal&come before the City Council. President Letellier—Do we have any other matter? I think I started with Councilor Simpson last time so we'll start with Councilor Perry this time. Councilor Perry—Nothing this evening. President Letellier— Thank you. Councilor Messick? 0 Councilor Messick—Nothing thank you. President Letellier—Thank you. Councilor Bitzas? i Councilor Bitzas—Nothing thank you. President Letellier - Thank you. Councilor Young? Councilor Young—Nothing, thank you. f President Lctellier—Thank you. Councilor Simpson? Councilor Simpson—Nothing thank you. President Letellier—Thank you. Councilor Mineo? Councilor Mineo—I would like to say something. President Letellier— By all means! Councilor Mineo—Um, about the sewer project, I think there's a lot of things that have been floating around especially about me cuz I'm the chairman of that committee,that I'm in favor of this type of project and people spending $18,000.00 or it costing them $18,000.00. I never said I was in favor of this project. The intent, and I really do, I sympathize with the folks in Feeding Hills that have septic systems, I certainly would like • to see them have sewers but I never said I was in favor of it. I'm in favor of the project but not the cost. Um, our intent and I think it was a good idea by Councilor Rossi to get information out to these folks but that was the intent last week. Get information out to 0 • em, we're gonna put a questionnaire together and Jack Stone had mentioned a couple of the questions, how much do people, how much are they willing to spend, and do they want the project? And that's the intent. We're not mov, there' no, you know, we're not moving forward with this project. We haven't even gone to bonding. I hope folks understand out there that and a lot of em are false. I mean that flier that went out had a Iisting of the City Council from 2004 when I think, when it was Councilor Bonavita and Councilor Carr Bitzas were on that document that went around that flier that went around to everybody in Feeding Hills so you know, a lot of the facts on that were false and I just wanted to make that very clear. And I do sympathize with these folks, I really do. Thank you. President Letellier—Thank you. Councilor Cavallo? • Councilor CavaIlo—Yea, I would like to commend Joe Mineo and his committee. Of course, he was under fire tonight but fortunately, I thought the group was well-behaved and there were, they made some very constructive comments. It certainly educated me a little bit because both Jill and I are coming on the tail end and we're new council members but Joe, I think the people appreciate you work. You work very hard and unfortunately what's happened is again, you're right, some misinformation gets out but this board, this council, knew from the get go when we voted last week that there was no intent to bond anything, there was nothing involved, there was no money that was going to be disbursed and I think it's just a matter again of probably having to educate them again and as you mentioned somehow, we can't let this drop. It has to go forward and I do hope you keep, I know it's hard to keep that enthusiasm going, and you've been doing it for four years,but we can't let it drop. And I think that we do owe them, maybe another explanation. Whatever it's gonna take us to do it because whether it finally goes through, as you pointed out Joe, I mean we don't even know, they're talking in the group there that there's funding somewhere. Your group has searched and was unable to find • funding. You know, it's frustrating like that so I think this Council listened and Iistened very attentively tonight and we'll digest what they had to say and then we move on but I don't think we should just let it drop. We have to be a little more proactive and move on with it but again, don't take it that way. I think you did a good job and I think this Council was understanding and I think they appreciated, the group, here tonight. I talked with a few of the people there and as I said to one person, you know I'm 66 years old and if I lived up there and all of a sudden I had to come up with $25,000.00 for a sewer, ha, I mean, it's a big blow. And we heard some stories and I'm sure they were probably true some of the stories we heard tonight and I think we have to consider that too. But one person made a good point though, you know, the idea of community and the idea that even the people who have sewers like me should be notified about the impact it may have on me cuz we don't know how it's gonna turn out. So not only should we consider them but also consider the rest of the taxpayers as well. That's all I have to say. President Letellier—Thank you. Councilor Rossi? • Councilor Rossi—Yes, I'm not gonna belabor any of the sewer issues here but let me just say first at the onset, I'm a little disappointed that the dialogue was cut off prior to • any motion being made to table here. I think that the people came and responded and deserved a little better than that. I think my argument and my vote spoke for itself when I talked against the Ordinance and I voted against the Ordinance and I think that spoke volumes to it. And the people here, if you listened to what they had to say, it goes a little bit deeper than the information. And the information I wanted to get out was exactly what I heard here today and what I think the councilors have heard here today. THEY DO NOT WANT THIS ORDINANCE IMPOSED AGAINST THEM! They do not want • this assessment made against them. This is a significant undertaking by the town and believe me when I tell you that $19,600.00 is the good news. That is the good news. And that is an assessment and if we pass this ordinance, we are saying that the city is going to be allowed to assess the individuals against those homes up there. That's what we're saying. We need to go a little bit further than the information. I think we need to go back and step back a little bit and look for some other options. That's my point. I think this has gone a little bit far, a little bit beyond the information point and I was a little disappointed that that was cut off, the dialogue was cut off before any motions were made to table. President Letellier—Thank you. .Councilor Rheault? Councilor Rheault—Nothing. It wouldn't be redundant. President Letellier—Thank you for your...Councilor Calabrese? Councilor Calabrese—Actually I kinda wanted to shift gears a little bit and congratulate those students who are going to be participating in the Academic Awards next week. You should all be commended for hard work and I'm certainly going to be there and I hope that many of my councilor members can be there to celebrate these accomplishments. Have a great evening. • President Letellier— Thank you. I have nothing further. Do we have a motion to adjourn? So moved. All in favor signify by saying Ay. Opposed? Thank you. Adjournment A 0 • • ADDENDUM TO THE MINUTES OF THE REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING • DATED FEBRUARY b. 2008 Item 4. Minutes • (a) Regular Council Mecting—February 6,2008 Councilor Rheault—TR-2007-48 after reading the minutes, I noticed that it had a motion to take it off the table but we never voted to take it off the table on that transfer. • And the item, when I said to move the question, that wasn't to move the item of agenda, it's just to move the question, we should have taken a second vote to uh, on the issue. Vice President Calabrese—Thank you. Councilor Rheault—And the next, let's see, I think there's one other one. TO-2007-52, on the Verbatim Minutes, we did not take a vote to leave it on the table, it was just moved over to a next agenda. And I believe that those are the only corrections that should be recorded in here. Vice President Calabrese—Thank you. Any other questions or comments regarding the • minutes? Barbara, did you get those? Councilor Perry—Point of clarification, Madam Vice President? Vice President Calabrese—Yes? • Councilor Perry—Through the Chair to Councilor Rheault,when an item's tabled and no action is taken it remains on the table and I believe that's what we did that evening. Is that correct? Or no? • Councilor Rheault- Yes but I think you have to vote to keep it on the table. Councilor Perry—Mmmm. I think if there's no action, you just leave it. I could be wrong. Just a point of clarification for the minutes. • Councilor Rheault - In all my history, we've always moved to leave it on the table. Councilor Perry - Okay, not a problem. Thanks. Vice President Calabrese—And I believe the item is still on the table? Okay. Do I have a motion to approve the minutes including the uh, comments as corrected? Clerk, • please call the roll? 0 i ADDENDUM TO THE MINUTES OF THE REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING DATED FEBRUARY 62 2008 Item 4. Minutes • (a) Regular Council Meeting--February 6,2008 Councilor Rheault— TR-2007-48 after reading the minutes, I noticed that it had a motion to take it off the table but we never voted to take it off the table on that transfer. And the item,when I said to move the question,that wasn't to move the item of agenda, it's just to move the question, we should have taken a second vote to uh, on the issue. Vice President Calabrese—Thank you. Councilor Rheault—And the next, let's see, I think there's one other one. TO-2007-52, on the Verbatim Minutes, we did not take a vote to leave it on the table, it was just moved over to a next agenda. And I believe that those are the only corrections that should be recorded in here. Vice President Calabrese—Thank you. Any other questions or comments regarding the minutes? Barbara, did you get those? Councilor Perry—Point of clarification, Madam Vice President? Vice President Calabrese—Yes? i Councilor Perry—Through the Chair to Councilor Rheault, when an item's tabled and no action is taken it remains on the table and I believe that's what we did that evening. Is that correct? Or no? Councilor Rheault- Yes but I think you have to vote to keep it on the table. Councilor Perry—Mmmm. I think if there's no action, you just leave it. I could be wrong. Just a point of clarification for the minutes. Councilor Rheault- In all my history, we've always moved to leave it on the table. Councilor Perry - Okay, not a problem. Thanks. Vice President Calabrese—And I believe the item is still on the table? Okay. Do I have a motion to approve the minutes including the uh, comments as corrected? Clerk, please call the roll? • • ADDENDUM TO THE MINUTES OF THE REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING DATED FEBRUARY 6, 2008 Item 4. Minutes • (a) Regular Council Meeting-February 6,2008 Councilor Rheault—TR-2007-48 after reading the minutes, I noticed that it had a motion to take it off the table but we never voted to take it off the table on that transfer. And the item,when I said to move the question, that wasn't to move the item of agenda, it's just to move the question, we should have taken a second vote to uh, on the issue. Vice President Calabrese—Thank you. Councilor Rheault—And the next, let's see, I think there's one other one. TO-2007-52, on the Verbatim Minutes, we did not take a vote to leave it on the table, it was just moved over to a next agenda. And I believe that those are the only corrections that should be recorded in here. Vice President Calabrese—Thank you. Any other questions or comments regarding the • minutes? Barbara, did you get those? Councilor Perry—Point of clarification, Madam Vice President? Vice President Calabrese—Yes? • Councilor Perry—Through the Chair to Councilor Rheault, when an item's tabled and no action is taken it remains on the table and I believe that's what we did that evening. Is that correct? Or no? Councilor Rheault- Yes but I think you have to vote to keep it on the table. Councilor Perry—Mmmm. I think if there's no action, you just leave it. I could be wrong. Just a point of clarification for the minutes. Councilor Rheault- In all my history, we've always moved to leave it on the table. • Councilor Perry - Okay, not a problem. Thanks. Vice President Calabrese—And I believe the item is still on the table? Okay. Do I have a motion to approve the minutes including the uh, comments as corrected? Clerk, i please call the roll? •