The URL can be used to link to this page

CC MTG MINUTES MARCH 17 2008• MINUTES i REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING MARCH 17, 2008 • President Letellier--Good evening and welcome to the Agawam City Council meeting for Monday, March 17'2008. Happy St. Patrick's Day to our Irish friends. Item 1. Citizen's Speak Time • President Letellier— We have three speakers this evening. The first is Paul Lagasse. A reminder that each speaker has five minutes and please state your name and address to begin. Thanks. Paul Lagasse—Hi. Paul Lagasse, 571 Barry Street in Feeding Hills. I'd like to express my opinion or my view on verbatim minutes if I might. I believe verbatim minutes are important not only to the tax payers who elect you but to the Council as a body and individually to the councilors but most importantly to the idea of democracy and fair representation by our elected officials. Government is supposed to be open and it's supposed to be transparent. No hidden agendas, no secret deals, no special treatment for any one group or person above the other. One of the best ways we, as voters, can actually assess that the council is, to read the agendas and the minutes. The minutes give us not only the actual vote of any item but your thoughts and reasoning behind that vote as well which is fairly important. When you folks have citizen's speak time or have public officials here for public hearing and the head of the DPW perhaps the Mayor or • others, consultants making comments about projects or items in town that affect us,the tax paying citizens, I believe we have a right to know what's being said as it's being said not simply a yes or a no vote at the end. I don't want to be dependent upon the media who takes snippets of what's said to sensationalize and embellish the proceedings. By now I think every one of you must know that the media takes wards out of context. They • don't always print exactly what you said and they just give pieces of it. It gives us the wrong impression of what's transpired. Verbatim minutes give us the opportunity to read exactly what you've said and helps explain why you voted the way you did. I remember at the sewer meeting about two weeks ago when I was here, Councilor Bitzas actually used verbatim minutes from a previous meeting to make a point during the discussion, • clarify his position as to why he voted yes during the first reading. Had we not had that, all we would have known is you guys voted yes. Why did you vote yes? What's your thought process? I'm interested in seeing good decision being made. I'm interested in seeing decisions being made that are thoughtful, concerned about the tax payers, concerned about the Town of Agawam. Unless I know what you're thinking, how you're thinking and why you're making that decision, a yes or no simply doesn't cut it. Now some people say that making a recording of a meeting or a video is sufficient. Well I would tell you that I've heard that the recordings sometimes don't always come out. I've • r heard that the video or the audio sometimes just stops right in the middle. So how are we to know what's being said? I think it's also shortsighted because it makes it much more • difficult for anyone who's not mobile to get a hold of these minutes. Right now,how would you distribute a video or audio recording? I'm sure you could put it on the town website but quite frankly both of those files are fairly large. You'd need broadband simply to move those files into people's houses. And then we'd have to listen to them for the entire three hours or pieces of those three hours to get to the point that we're interested in. If we're only interested in one topic, why make us work for that particular topic? Now, you could also say, well we could stick them in the library then everybody could look at them. Well, I think that's a great idea too but then ONE person gets to look at them or view them at one time and secondarily those folks that don't have easy transportation to get to the library are gonna find it more difficult to get to. I think the current method that Barbara uses right now which, although it's onerous and it's difficult to do and she has a hard time doing it because it's hard to hear the voices, it's really a great idea. You put them on the website, you put them in a PDF form and it makes it easy access for everybody in town. I can open up a PDF form and I can search a word or I can search a councilor's name or I can search a topic and I can find that particular topic near instantly in order to assess what was said, how it was said and what was done. If you think it's too time consuming for Barbara to transcribe minutes then I ask two questions. One, why did you hire her in the first place and two I'd also suggest that there are software solutions on the market. If you'd invest some time, each one of you, and look at Dragon systems for example. Radiologists at the hospital use this for transcription quite frequently. As I'm speaking right now, text is printing out over here. 0 Yes, I have to train it. Yes, I have to talk to it for eight hours to make it understand me personally but it does that transcription for you. The transcriptionists at the hospitals merely read it and listen at the same time. They don't have to re-record anything or re- type anything. It's a big help. So I would encourage you to look at that. In summary, I think that stopping transcription of verbatim minutes would just exclude and alienate • some of the voters, the people that are, we elected you to represent. The voters will have incomplete information during election season, and the council would be viewed with disdain. A disdain that comes from non-transparent, secret meeting group that does not care enough about the constituency to make their words and processes open to the public. Secrecy is not what democracy is about. Think about how you want to be viewed and • how you want this council to be viewed. If you want to be viewed secretively, remove the verbatim minutes. There's one more step towards making it difficult to see what's going on. Even a distasteful topic such as a tax increase, that's fully discussed with thoughtful decision making and full input from the public can be.viewed positively. You can vote for a tax increase and people would be okay with that as long as they knew what the thought process was behind it. But if all the decision is is a simple yes or no, I want to base my opinion on a two or a three letter word, yes or no and I don't know what went into that two or three letter word. (time's up) I'm sorry. President Letellier— Thank you Mr. Lagasse. Our next speaker is Florida Tamgocci. Florida Tamgocci—My name is Florida Tamgocci and I live on 44 Howard Street in North Agawam and prior to that I lived in the lemon city area if you know where that is. • • I was asked to speak and explain about the foreign film festival that is being put on by the Agawam Cultural Council. If you know about our council you know that Bob Kadis is in • charge of it as the chairman and he's been working hard getting new things. We're not a for profit organization, we're a non-profit organization and what little money we get; we share it with everybody in town. We have been very fortunate in having some wonderful chair people and Bob is our latest and thought of this idea of a foreign film festival and we will be having it at Agawam Family Cinemas, four Sundays in a row and two of them • are French and two are Italian. Yes, they will have the American English titles. I found years ago when you went and saw a foreign film, you didn't have to get cross-eyed looking at the English. You can just look at the people and their acting because usually their acting is so superior and our first film will be La Vie en Rose which was released in 2007. It's rather a wonderful, wonderful story of Edith Piaf and I remember hearing her • before the war and I didn't realize she died at an early age of 47. She had the most beautiful singing voice and a French actress that did it is up for many awards. So that will be March 30 . April 6"'will La Cage aux Folles. That is a little bit different. It's been into a musical and if you don't know the story, it's a transvestite, a nightclub owner and his drag queen star attraction masquerade as a straight, married coup for the benefit of the 40 ultraconservative parents of their son's fiancee which will be a little different and I'm sure it'll be a lot of laughs but anyway. On April 13`h will be La Dolce Vita which will be in Italian and it is with the English titles. It was by Federico Fellini who did it and the stars were Marcello Mastroianni and Anita Ekberg and if you ever remember seeing either one of them, you wouldn't want to miss this I'm sure. It was nominated for four Academy Awards. And the last movie will be the May 4`h one on Sunday and it's 0 another Italian one and it's Bread and Tulips. It was released in 2000, year 2000 and it's Italian as I said. It's about an unappreciated housewife. Now that sounds familiar! Anyway, she finds good fortune when she hitchhikes to Venice, where else right? Anyways, sounds wonderful. Evidently she meets up with a lonely waiter. The tickets will be only $6.00 so you know we're not making any money on it. It's for a social thing • and to bring something else into our town. We are trying to get different cultural things going. Through the years we've had some wonderful, wonderful people in charge besides Bob. Prior to Bob we had Mike... he's busy with a young family now and with Rotary Club, he's done so much with our summer series with the musical series we have usually on Wednesdays on different nights. And prior to that we had Sylvia Deliso, • wonderful woman and she's still active with our cultural council (time is up). Oh, I asked you. I said to her before do I get a gong? Okay, anyway thank you for listening and I hope to see you at the movies. President Letellier—Florida? Florida? Why don't you, do you have one? Okay, I • already have mine but maybe you could distribute them in the council packet and put one at the town hall. Okay, thank you. Our next speaker is Louis Russo. Louis Russo—Florida is a tough act to follow. Louie Russo, Highland Street, Feeding Hills. In a recent news article, owners of the defunct car lot across from Six Flags are appealing Six Flags' request for a special permit. Permit is for a new roller coaster. First 0 those of you who don't know I was one of those who publicly spoke out against Six Flags regarding the parking ban issue in Agawam. Even though recent facts that I have found • • out show that Six Flags wasn't as big a culprit in that fiasco as originally thought, I am still against the parking ban. I also agree that it was right to place a stop order on Six • Flags' continued construction of the coaster until the proper permits are issued. However, as we were told in that news article is their right under state law to continue construction while they and I quote "move forward at their own risk". It is with that law in mind that I have a problem with the owners of the defunct car lot who don't even live in Agawam. I realize these out of towners as local property owners have the right to 0 appeal no matter how absurd the appeal seems. But what real grounds do they have such an appeal? First they claim the roller coaster is not appropriate for the location. Well, this coaster is an amusement ride in the middle of an amusement park. How more appropriate can it get? Secondly, it would affect traffic and safety. Well,traffic has already been affected for years and can't get much worse because of the addition of one 0 amusement ride. So where' the rationale for that cause? Finally,these outsiders claim that the ride will affect property values. Well, since the new ride will add$7 million to the value of the park and $250 million in tax income to Agawam, they may have a point but only a positive one. Perhaps the new ride will make up for the negative property value that the non-resident property owners may have created because of the run down used car lot. So then the quest becomes one of common sense. Do we...out Six Flags who can legally move forward at their own risk to be allowed to add value to the park while giving Agawam an additional quarter million dollars in tax revenue? Or do we agree with a pair of out of town...eyesore will be adversely affected and offers no benefit other than the few dollars they pay in taxes? Taxes which make probably a few less than most homeowners pay. Most of you weren't on the council during the Berkshire Power • issues. Those of you who were will know exactly what I'm talking about. This issue about Six Flags centers around state and local fire codes which brought to mind immediately Berkshire Power. How many of you remember besides me when Berkshire Power violated all sorts of state and local laws including fire codes? Do any of you remember how Berkshire Power was undeniably guilt of several violations but never • really punished and never really denied any permits special or otherwise? So tell me where's the justice there? And finally I wanted to mention about the verbatim minutes. I too agree that verbatim minutes should remain in effect. I had other things to say but the gentleman before me said it far more eloquently than I could have. But I just wanted to state one thing. Some of you may remember that this is not the first time this issue has • come before this council. It came up several times in the past and each time the council, the previous councils in their wisdom, made sure that verbatim minutes stayed in effect. And hopefully, this council continues to do that. Thank you. President Letellier—Thank you Mr. Russo. Item 2. Roll Call President Letellier—Barbara, could you please call the roll? ROLL CALL— 10 Present, 1 Absent(Councilor Cavallo) • President Letellier—Ten present, one absent. We have a quorum. Paul Cavallo called • and indicated he was out of town this evening. i Item 3. Moment of Silence and the Pledge of Allegiance President Letellier—Please rise. Oh, the flag has been moved. Item 4. Minutes (a) Regular Council Meeting—February„19, 2008 President Letellier—Moved by Councilor Simpson, seconded by Councilor Young. Any discussion? Any changes? No? Voice vote will be sufficient. All those in favor please signify by saying Ay. Opposed? Two abstentions. Eight yes, two abstentions (Councilors Rheault and Rossi), one absent (Councilor Cavallo). (b) Regular Council Meeting—March 3 2008 President Letellier—Moved by Councilor Simpson, seconded by Councilor Young. All those in favor signify by saying Ay. Opposed? Okay, for March 3rd we have three abstentions, Councilor Rheault, Councilor Rossi and myself. So we have seven yes, three abstentions and one absent(Councilor Cavallo) and those have passed as well. Item 5. Declaration from Council President President Letellier—At the second meeting in February I opened up the Sewer Committee to three new members. We received four applications however we also received a resignation from a member. So we have accepted the resignation of Lowell McLane. So we have now four new members, three new ones and one to replace Lowell McLane and I believe they are here. We have Dennis Stempel, Dan Lacienski, I don't think he's here. Doug Reed is here and Paul Lagassi is here. So we welcome your input and we thank you for you volunteering your time. Item G. Presentation of Petitions Memorials & Remonstrances i (a) Resolutions 1. TR-2008-4 -A Resolution Establishing a No Parking Zone on Hunt Street. (Mayor) (Majority of those present and voting) (tabled on 3/3/08) (Referred to Traffic & Street Safety Committee 0 President Letellier—Six votes will be needed. Do we have a motion to take it off the table? Moved by Councilor Perry, seconded by Councilors Simpson and Messick. Do we have a report from the Traffic and Safety Committee? Councilor Perry— Yes thank you Madam President. I had requested through Barbara 0 some information from the Police Chief and the Fire Chief in regards to the no parking on Hunt Street. That request I made in writing and we received from the Police Chief or the i Acting Chief in Thursday's packet I believe everyone received that, a positive response to going forward with the No Parking on Hunt Street. We also received today, Barbara did ! everyone get it?From the Fire Chief some information and not that he's really had any complaints but would also have no problem with you know passing this No Parking on Hunt Street. I have conversed with Councilor Rossi and Councilor Rheault who are on my committee and all three of us concurred that we should go forward and pass this this evening. Thank you. President Letellier—Thank you. Any other discussion from any other committee members or anyone else? No? Seeing none, Barbara, could you tail the roll? A yes vote is to establish a no parking zone on Hunt Street. Six votes are necessary. ROLL CALL— 10 Yes, 1 Absent(Councilor Cavallo) President Letellier- With ten yes and one absent, we've approved the no parking zone. 2. TR-2008-5 - A Resolution to Accept_Massachusetts General Law Chapter 43D "An Act Relative to Streamlining and Expediting the Permitting Process in the Commonwealth". (Mayor) (Maiority of those resent and voting) tabled on 3/3/08 Referred to Zoning & Ordinance Committees) President Letellier—Do we have a motion to take it off the table? Moved by Councilor ! Simpson, seconded by Councilors Rheault and Bitzas. Any discussion for taking off the table? No? Voice vote is sufficient. All in favor of taking off the table signify by saying Ay. Opposed? The item is off the table. Do we have a report from the Zoning & Ordinance Committee? Ordinance Councilor Rheault? No updates since the last report from last meeting? Okay, any update on your end Councilor Messick? Any discussion? Councilor Calabrese? Councilor Calabrese—I just wanted to say that we actually had a report from the Zoning Committee at our last meeting and at that meeting, I was present as was several members of the Ordinance Committee as well and we had discussed that matter. The matter was tabled for further discussion. President Letellier— Is there further discussion? Councilor Rossi? Councilor Rossi—Yes, thank you. I wasn't here for that Ordinance & Zoning Committee meeting nor was I here for the last meeting that you had concerning this item ! when the dialogue was given. But I did however read the minutes of the meeting concerning the testimony or the statements that were given here by Debbi Dachos, our Planner, and a gentleman from WestMass. I did read some of the comments from the Councilors. And I want to be quite frank and open about this. I don't think that I remember a worse piece of legislation coming before this council in my entire career in the Town of Agawam. This thing here takes away the very due process in the Town of Agawam. This thing expediting permitting preemptively overrides current local zoning and land use and undermines the local process, permitting process. The local boards in Agawam form a vital line of defense in this community. They give the citizens who are • most affected by development a real voice in determining their own future. The permitting process, 431), under Section 11 with a stand alone bill of H41-70 tapes all that away. And if you just read Section 1 of 43D and I state `notwithstanding any general or specific law, charter provision, ordinance or by-law to the contrary, 43D shall apply upon adoption'. Simply broken down, if you accept this Chapter, you do away with our local permitting process and turn it over into the hands of the state agency. Okay? This is a fundamental safeguard that cannot be thrown away here. There are 351 communities and cities and towns in the State of Massachusetts and only 26 have bitten and only because Mitt Romney and few of his legislators and developers got together and came up with a scheme under 41-70 to come out with this incentive program to offer money for citizens, cities and towns who are willing to give up their local process for a few measly dollars. And I think Ms. Dachos appropriately termed it at the last meeting as a `carrot'. Now simply by definition we all know what a carrot is. It's an enticement to get someone to do something they wouldn't ordinarily do. Now, it says you can get up to $150,000.00. There is no $150,000.00 available. The only monies available under the Chapter right now are for technical review purposes. Technical review purposes for the Town of Agawam simply are no good. We do not want to place our hands into some intra agency belonging to the state and have them determining what our lot in life is gonna be here in Agawam. Now this law also requires that regards to any controversy or conflicts surrounding any development in the Town of Agawam,the law has to be approval within a rigid time line of 180 days. Okay? If it's not done, that means there's an automatic approval here regardless of what we say. There is no right of appeal here except through the developer. Let me repeat that. The developer is the only one that has the right to appeal this and it's generally through a land court. During that appeal process, a developer can't continue to operate regardless of any irreparable damage caused by that continuance through the denial. Okay? Citizens and I want you to pay attention here; • citizens there are no provisions in this chapter for a citizen's appeal. Let me repeat that, there are no provisions for citizen's to appeal this process. And if that's not bad enough, all deliberations, all mediations or any other actions taken by any board of appeal process are held behind closed doors and not held to public scrutiny. I don't know if I need to repeat that. This is a very, very dangerous law. I don't know why it was ever introduced. + I don't know if there's any problems that we've ever had, that the Planner and Director of Planning even said at the last meeting there's never been a case, there is not a case,there never will be a case in her opinion because of all the research and planning that she has done to ensure that the streamlining process, the permitting in Agawam is smooth and safe. We do not have any problems. So why would we ever entertain an expedited permitting process? Further, 43D allows if the Town of Agawam petitions the State for a parcel of property to be permitted as a priority development area,that building manufacturing, commercial properties can't be developed up to and within 50 feet of residential districts. Now I wonder if the people on Rising and Cesan Drives would like that? Because the property that we're talking about here and that these people are asking us to do, they're asking us not only to pass this but if you'd read this correctly,this is two parts. They're asking us to adopt 43D and they're asking us to petition the state to declare that that piece or parcel of property belonging to WestMass on the corner of • • Cesan and Shoemaker Lane as a priority development area. That's what they're doing. Now, if you take clearly by definition, of what the state says, Ms. Dachos is shaking her • head but if you want to debate this, I'd be more than happy to do it, WestMass area clearly by general definition says that priority site plan is one that's adjacent to industrial property which that is not. It says that it has to be either an underutilized facility or building which there is not. It said that it should be in an appropriate transit area that is questionable seeing how it's all secondary roads. I don't see how this property can be * considered a high priority development area especially in view of the fact that WestMass had abandoned this property some 25 years ago. And now I've noticed that there's been a sign up there for quite some time, so it tells me that they're asking us,the City Council, to petition the state to make this a high priority so WestMass, the owners of the property, can sell it and I'm guessing at a much more appreciated rate and not only to the fact that they will be able to use the State and local websitings in what's named as a commercial priority area. But that would be my assumption. But in summation,let me just say this. If you can remember a couple of years ago there was a development company that came in here from New York and wanted to develop a piece of property called Tennis Road. And in their quest to develop that they came to this Council and this Town and we went through a lot of controversy over changing our zoning laws to get it done. I think the Council members that are here today and there's another council member that is here that was very actively involved in that and the citizens of this community reacted pretty well to that. And I am sure and be willing to bet, that if this is passed here tonight, the same reaction will take place. If we sit here and give up the citizen's right to a democratic process, there's something very seriously wrong going on here. I would urge my fellow councilors to vote against this. President Letellier—Councilor Messick? Councilor Messick—I'm reading here from the program regulations in response to the • statements that Councilor Rossi just made as far as appeals. Let's see `the issuing authority shall make every reasonable effort to review permit modification request within as short a period of time as is feasible'. Can I have one second here? Frequently asked questions about the program, does this law require local board and commissions to reduce their standards of review? The answer is no. Nothing in the expediting permitting law alters the substantive jurisdictional authority of local boards or departments. We have to get it done in 180 days. But the board's permitting process remains the same. From what I was understanding and from what I've read here, there is no loss of jurisdiction. Also at the end of 180 days, we're not obligated to grant a permit. We can deny as well. In regards to the piece of property, the piece of property is actually the closest I believe that we're gonna get to having a piece of property that would be usable for this project. WestMass has made every effort to market the property and I think that we should give them assistance in that area. The only reason this property isn't a part of the industrial park is because of Route 57. It was in the original industrial park plan. So that's all I have to say. President Letellier— Councilor Bitzas? • • Councilor Bitzas—Yes, with respect to Councilor Rossi, I disagree with some of the comments. You have the right to oppose this but I want to remind the people that this council voted 5-4 to table this not because we didn't like it but we would like to see some changes into the language, the resolution that Councilor Rheault and myself wrote into it. So what we have here, we have apples and oranges. We cannot compare this situation with Tennis Road situation. It's a completely different thing. What I see here is WestMass to build something quickly because we know sometimes the history of our boards and commissions here, they are not that great. They're delayed and delayed and delayed. We give some incentives to this WestMass and it would provide the tax payer's relief so it's good for the town, it's good for the tax payers but before this council has other questions, I will ask to suspend the rules and I want to a couple of questions,the developer, I mean the director of Planning and Development of the Town, to answer to us because I can see her disagreeing because Councilor Rossi's ideas and our Planner, and I want to clarify before we make a vote. I'm not gonna change my vote. I will support this. I studied and I think it's a good idea for our town and for our tax payers. I don't know if you remember a few years ago when WestMass was in big trouble and we almost lost the big parcels in the industrial park. We helped them, then it was Mayor Johnson, and now we have one of the best parks in our state. We give them some incentives. Some people they were not happy about it. They complained why are we doing this for them? But for the long run, we benefit so, I think I see this a benefit for our town. And also why not take $50,000 or $60,000 or$70,000 from the state? Why let any other cities and towns take this money? It's our money too. It's our tax payers' money. I think we should take it. So I'm going to make a motion to have Debbi talk to us for a second. • President Letellier—There's no need to suspend the rules if you do a motion to go into committee as a whole. Councilor Bitzas--Yes. • President Letellier—Okay, we have a motion to go into committee as a whole by Councilor Bitzas, seconded by Councilor Messick. Any discussions? No? Councilor Rossi—I do. • President Letellier— Yes, Councilor Rossi? Councilor Rossi--Why is this all necessary to do that? I mean they had an opportunity to make their case over here. This is all pre-discussion for us here and now. You either . like or you don't like it. I gave you my bit... President Letellier—Councilor Rossi,the motion on the floor is a motion to suspend, Pm sorry, a motion to go into committee as a whole... Councilor Rossi—and you asked me for my opinion... • President Letellier— I asked if there was any discussion on the mot, the underlying • motion, not on the item itself. Councilor Rossi—No, that's the motion I'm making. I don't feel it's necessary to go into it because it's already been given—her position's been given. I don't see a need to go into committee as a whole. President Letellier—Any other discussion? Barbara, could you call the roll? A yes vote is to go into committee as a whole. ROLL CALL—6 Yes, 4 No (Councilors Rheault, Rossi, Simpson, Young), 1 Absent (Councilor Cavallo) President Letellier—With a vote of six yes, four no, we've gone into committee as a whole. Debbi, could you please approach the microphone? Thank you. Councilor Bitzas, did you want to ask questions directly to Ms. Dachos? Councilor Bitzas--Yes, Debbie, how do you see this thrown to us, if you're a councilor, how would you vote for it, if you're elected by the people of Agawam? r Councilor Rossi - Point of Information? Councilor Bitzas— You heard Councilor Rossi make some points, strong points, and I saw your face, your head shaking in disbelief Can you rebuttal what Councilor Rossi • said? Debbi Dachos—I wish I was taking notes. I didn't take notes but there's a couple of immediate reactions I have and the first is regarding a statement that this is bad for the entire town, it supercedes zoning and other land use regulations we have. I wish you had been here for the last meeting, we had a very detailed discussion at that time and it only refers, this 43D legislation, would only refer to one parcel in town. It's not superceding zoning for every single parcel in the entire municipality. So if the town decided that there were other 43D parcels, they would have, we would have to come or I would have to come or the Mayor would have to come before you and ask if those particular parcels or parcel would you care to have economic development on. Now with regard to the requirements to be a 43D priority development sight, it has to be zoned for that use. It has to be able to support a 50,000 square foot building; it has to be adjacent to other industrial or commercially zoned property. Let's go through them. It is adjacent to the Business B and Industrial A zone. There is a piece of residential property to the west and 0 that has been there since the park was developed. Here my voice goes again, alright. Now children, now I'm talking to my children, alright So the park was developed in 1983, it was zoned Industrial A. It's been zoned for that use for the last twenty five years. Can the parcel a 50,000 square foot building? Yes it can. It's eleven acres, fourteen acres in size. Is it transit friendly? We do have PVTA bus route to the Industrial Park. We do that for the various shifts in the park. I can't remember the other • criteria but it matched all the criteria. I really what I was shaking my head at is I couldn't figure out where you came up with the 50 feet from property line. It has to meet the 0 zoning in the Town of Agawam for Industrial A and that does not change for priority development sites... Councilor Rossi—If I may? If I may? If you accept and you have to first of all, let's stand back and look at thing separately here. You're asking this council for two things here tonight. You're asking us to adopt 43D and you're asking us,this council, to set this area as a priority area. There are two things you're asking from us here. Now let's take the first thing first, 431), and when I aluded to the fact that this undermines the local zoning, I say and I quote from Section I of 43D "notwithstanding any law, general or specific, charter provision, zoning or ordinance contrary, 43D shall apply" which means if this council adopts 43D it comes under the state code regulations and our laws, our local zoning laws no longer exist because 43D requires us as cities or towns upon adoption to create legislation that conforms to the state code. Now I don't know if you're aware of that,but that's in the law. Debbie Dachos—That's not correct though. Councilor Rossi - That is absolutely, positively correct. Debbie Dachos—That is for a 43D parcel. That is not for the Town of Agawam. Councilor Rossi -No, no. That is for... Debbie Dachas —Well that's your opinion... Councilor Rossi - You're asking us to adopt 43D... President Letellier - Councilor Rossi, let her finish her response! Debbie Dachos—If you would like to table this or you do care to vote, that's fine, this evening, and I will have a state official come and answer your questions, but yes, you do adopt 43D, that gives the town a tool for individual parcels that would come before you. It isn't a blanket piece of legislation that would apply to pieces of property in town. But that is not a correct interpretation and when it says that 43D would apply to that individual parcel it means that if you don't meet the 180 day time frame,then yes in fact the permit would be granted like a special permit or other tools'that are used in the Town of Agawam, with regard to not acting within the 180 day time frame. If, for instance, there's a special permit that is necessary for a use on a parcel and we chose that particular parcel because it's a parcel that allows industrial development by right. Meaning,unless there's a hazardous activity that goes on, say we had a hypothetical situation where a special permit was necessary. The Board of Appeals could deny the project as long as it did it within the 180 days. I gave a presentation at the last meeting where I discussed a review of all the land use regulations we have in town and none of them take 180 days. As far as.I can remember as you stated correctly, I don't remember a project taking 180 days to be permitted. So it just refers to one individual parcel, a fourteen acre parcel in town, we're saying, you're saying if you adopt this, that you would like 43D to apply to ♦ r that parcel and that the Town would take every effort possible to ensure that a permit is issued on that parcel within 180 days. However, if the applicant does not provide ! adequate information, you can deny it. And yes, as a result of doing this, for our fourteen acre parcel, you can get up to $100,000.00 - $150,000.00. I think it's a real win for the town. The property is zoned for that use. We've been attempting to market it for years. It gives us national marketing ability through placing it as a 43D priority site and money that we desperately need for economic development planning doesn't come out of the ! taxpayer's pocket. Councilor Rossi—It's not the parcel of property that I'm concerned about, not at all. What Pm concerned about is that this order before us today says and I quote "whereas by accepting 43D of Mass. Gen. Laws, municipalities are provided with the tools for 0 targeted development". If we don't accept 43D, we can't even apply for that property to be targeted as an economic development site. We have to first adopt a 43D. Debbie Dachos - That's right. Councilor Rossi - That is the scary part. Debbie Dachos - Well each parcel will come to you individually and you have the right to say yes or no on an individual parcel... Councilor Rossi—I understand. I understand the parcel. Debbie Dachos - So, we just have one parcel before you this evening. Councilor Rossi—I understand the process and I understand that this council has to designate that property. I understand that. And that's not what my concern is here today 0 because this council can either say yes or no to that property being designated as a priority area. I'm not concerned about that. I'm concerned about us adopting this law because once we adopt this law, we have to conform to state regulations and there's a lot a things in here that deny the citizens of this community the local democratic process that we that currently exist here today. That's what my problem is here today. ! Debbie Dachos—Okay. You have you know, I don't agree with it, I think that we will still be able to use our local permitting for that one parcel and it just encourages people to act in an expeditious fashion for that one parcel only. i President Letellier—Any more questions for, are you done Councilor Bitzas? I'm sorry. Councilor Bitzas—No you've qualified all of my questions. Thank you, thank you Debbie and the Planning Board voted in favor unanimously for this? Debbie Dachos—Yes, they did. Councilor Bitzas—At the last meeting? ! Debbie Dachos --The meeting before last. Councilor Bitzas —Okay, thank you Debbie, I appreciate that. President LeteIlier— Councilor Rossi did you have any more questions for Ms. Dachos? No? Councilor Calabrese? Councilor Calabrese—Thank you. Deb, what is the approximately turn around time for making a decision on an application for a permit? Debbie Dachos —I think it was in the material that I gave you, the grant application specified the different permits that would be obtained. Site plans are usually 30 days if that long. This parcel does have wetlands on it and that would be approximately a 90 days process but could be longer. And as I said a special permit I think the maximum would be about 120 days if things didn't happen expeditiously. So let's say less than 180 days in almost, in every case. Councilor Calabrese—And we do retain the power to deny an application? Debbie Dachos—Yes. Councilor Calabrese—Okay, thank you. No further questions. President Letellier—Any other questions for Ms. Dachos? Councilor Perry? Councilor Perry—Yes, thank you Madam President. Through the chair to Debbi for coming up again. So if I'm understanding you correctly by adopting this and the 43D, by adopting that we are only looking at that property that 11 acre or 14 acre WestMass property, it doesn't pertain to any other properties in town? Debbie Dachos—Not unless you adopt additional 43D sites,priority development sites. Councilor Perry— So each one would have to be applied to the state separately? Debbie Dachos - Yes. Councilor Perry— Say Tennis Road, there's 40 acres up there that may want to be ! developed and we would have to apply. 43D would not pertain to that unless it's applied to the state through the town, correct? Debbie Dachos—Right, right. And just a little bit of background. When I was here the last meeting, I explained what we were talking about the use of the technical assistance fund and I tried to emphasize the point that Agawam has run out of industrial land and commercial land. And Agawam has been fortunate over the years to not have to go to the residential tax payers to fund services that other communities are requesting the residents to pay for with Proposition 2'/Z Overrides. Agawam has a beautiful Industrial Park that everybody knows is an asset, actually a jewel, it's considered statewide...companies. ! We've attempted to find other sites, there are virtually well I can Councilor Cavallo asked me to list them and I know them and there aren't enough to sustain growth in the Town of Agawam to pay for services. So we have to be proactive and if we're not, there's gonna be tough times ahead and this grant will enable us to apply for technical assistance funds to actually look more closely than I can at all the remaining land and find out number one what land in town is suitable for the type of development and then do a whole public participation process to get residents to support development of additional lands. So I'm getting a little bit off the track here but it's a real, it's an excellent source of funding for planning to continue the growth and prosperity in the Town of Agawam in a way that would be supported by the residents. Councilor Perry - Okay thank you Deb. Now looking at that property, it's 14 acres or whatever it is. And say that's divided up into five different businesses and applications, and permitting and things for those different businesses; they would all fall under that 43D separately? You're not gonna develop all 11 acres at once. I'm just trying to get an idea of like the industrial park, it grew slowly and we got 26 businesses in there or whatever it is, this piece of property we're talking about may have eventually have 5, 6, 10 business in it. For the length of the development of that property, that property would still remain under 43D and each business as it was developed would fall under those regulations? • Debbie Dachos - I think it's very unlikely that there'll be more than two parcels on that site. If you look at the, the maps that I provided you with, it shows that there's limited frontage on the parcel and in necks down and there's basically two triangles attached. WestMass is marketing it as either one parcel or two, so yes, if there are two parcels, ultimately then that 43D would apply to both parcels for the entire fourteen acres. M Councilor Perry—Thank you. President Letellier—Councilor Bitzas? Councilor Bitzas—Thank you. My last question. If we don't act tonight, I wish this council would support this tonight and not table, if we table we going to delay two more weeks. The last time you said and you sent us a letter that tells us that we must act tonight for you to be able to apply for the $50,000 or$60,000 grant, do we have deadline here for tonight? i Debbie Dachos—Basically, communities can apply til the money runs out. We're in, right at a point, in terms of the other municipalities where we're not gonna be competitive because there are a lot of communities that have town meeting form of government and they're bringing their proposals to town meetings. I was kind of hoping to get in before they submit all their applications because it's basically a first come first served pot of money and once it's gone it's gone. I also wanted to let you know that once you vote, if you voted tonight to submit the application, that's not the end of the process. I have to i come back to you for approvals. So the state would say yes we support your 43D parcel and then I have to come back to you and you have to say okay yes, we accept this also, and you know what the grant funds are and you can say at that point no we're not gonna institute the procedure, the permitting designation on this parcel, we've decided not to pursue it so I mean you still have a second chance of looking at it if you felt that there were some reason that you didn't want to go through with it. Councilor Bitzas--So it's a common sense to act tonight, I believe. Okay, thank you. Debbie Dachos--Yes, it makes sense to vote tonight. President Letellier— Thank you. Any more questions for Counc, I mean Deb Dachos. No? Seeing none, do we have a motion to.come out of committee as a whole? Moved by Councilor Simpson, seconded by Councilor Calabrese. All in favor of coming out of committee as a whole please signify by saying Ay? Opposed? Abstentions? Okay, we're back on discussion of the original item which is TR-2008-5. Any further discussion amongst the council? Yes, Councilor Rossi. Councilor Rossi—Yes just to clarify a couple of questions asked by Councilor Perry over here. The permitting the different parcels of land that you questioned about this council submitting to the state under 43D, she's absolutely correct. That is the procedure. This council has to agree to send it to the state for their approval and then it comes back here. But that's not the danger here, the danger is that in order to get that done through 43D, we have to accept 43D, Chapter 43D. Now just to give you just a brief history of this, when this bill was designed in 2005, there were no takers on this thing. They couldn't get this thing passed through hell or high water. And Romney at a meeting with the board, at a Chamber of Commerce meeting, came out with this plan, a stand alone plan, a bill which is this H 4170 to make necessary inducements, to get cities and towns on board with this thing in the interest of developers not the citizens or communities, the developers and I can't emphasize that enough. Now Debbie talked about this technical review team and that is true. There's a technical.review team appointed but that technical review team, what they do in effect is look over the local board's shoulder and this group is the one that asks questions on its rulings, on any issues of law, policy,procedure or classification that an applicant claims in dispute between the applicant and the issuing authority. There is NO provision to allow citizens to obtain a review board in this action that they consider that endangers their health or the health of their neighborhood. It is only for the developer. And that's a scary process. That's why I say it's dangerous. I'm not talking about this piece of property or any other property that we deem appropriate to i be.classified as a desirable development area. If you think this isn't such, I think the council should vote that way. But that's not the issue here. In order to that we have to accept this chapter and when we do, we effectively dismantle our local zoning and have to conform to the zoning of the state. And that is the law. And that's all I want to say. President Letellier—Councilor Bitzas. Councilor Bitzas —I think.Debbic did a very, very good job explaining to all of us and I i hope, I'm not gonna tell you how to vote, but I hope the Council will give favored support for this Resolution because this will bring to our town more taxes and more jobs. • In this economic climate, we do need this. We don't break any laws if Governor Romney did that or Governor Patrick Duval or anybody if makes no difference to me who proposed that. What I see here for the town, more jobs, more taxes and some assistance to WestMass to make a nice one or two parcels. And we did the same thing about fifteen years ago, we had many, many people that complained to us when we were sitting down here voting to keep...beautiful industrial park we have now. And we voted,we liked it and we passed it and we have a beautiful, beautiful park now and a lot of money going into the town's coffers. That's why the taxes, you're paying a little bit less that surrounding towns. We pay a lot of taxes, we do pay taxes but we should pay a lot more if we didn't have the industrial park. And I don't, can't see, l can find no reason to say no to this plus we get $50,000 or$60,000 from the state. Why would we close our eyes and go in that direction? I hope the council will stick with it, not all of us, but I hope the majority will vote in support. Thank you. President Letellier—Thank you. Any other councilor wishing to make a comment? I • just wish to make a point of information. As Councilor Rossi was bringing up his point, I tried to go into the text of the law to see what I could find. And I did find Section 10 on the appeal process and Section 1 OB says `a person aggrieved by a final decision of any issuing authority or by the failure of that authority to take final action concerning the application within the time specified, whether or not previously a party to the proceeding, or any governmental officer or agency may appeal the decision.' So I don't see how it says that citizens are precluded from appealing the decision. I've read this a couple of times while people were debating. I don't if that helps you with regard to your question about appeals or not. Councilor Rossi—Through the chair, it doesn't address the citizen's appeal. That 0 addresses only for the developers' appeal. And the developers, and the city or town can appeal. They can, in Section 10, you're correct, they can appeal the process but during the appeal process, it's most likely to be handled through a state agency and any action taken is gonna be done by a state board or the land courts and I think we all know what that is. What that means is that any action, deliberations, or mediations taken from those 0 appeals under Section 10 that you're talking about, is done behind closed doors. The public scrutiny, there is no option for public scrutiny on any decision, mediation or any other action taken on that appeal process by the cities or towns that may feel aggrieved. Now in addition to that, the developers still can proceed in the development regardless of any irreparable damage that may result under that appeal process. And then I said earlier, . open meeting laws do not apply under 43D and I think you'll know Gina because you do a lot of negotiations for real estate. Real estate does not come under open meeting restrictions. There is no requirement for open meeting laws. They don't apply. To answer your question, Section 10 does allow the cities and towns to appeal if they feel as though there has been some issue but that appeal process has time, rigid time constraints on it and during the appeal process they can't continue the development. But there's no 0 citizen's appeal there. 0 President Letellier—I wasn't raising the question, I was just trying to point some information out. Any other discussion from the council? No? Alright. I'm going to 0 read the `therefore' portion of the Resolution. A Yes vote, Pm sorry, Councilor Perry? Councilor Perry—Thank you. I think Councilor Rossi has brought some big,very good, valid concerns up this evening in regards to this. I appreciate Debbie being here this evening and giving her points of view. I'm not ready to vote on this this evening. I think I need more time in regards to some legal advice either from the state as Debbie had suggested that we could possibly do maybe through one of our committees to get these answers in regards to this. I for one do not want to give any of our local boards or handcuff any of our local boards by adopting this in regards to this property. I also don't want to take any rights away from the citizens or residents that live near this property,the S rights to appeal anything that they feel they don't want in their neighborhood. So I'm going to make a motion to table and I will do so right now, thank you. Councilor Rheault— Second. President Letellier—Motion to table by Councilor Perry, seconded by Councilor • Rheault. There's no discussion on a tabling motion. Barbara could you please call the roll? Six votes are needed to table. ROLL CALL—6 Yes, 4 No (Councilors Bitzas, Messick, Mineo, Simpson), I Absent (Councilor Cavallo) • President Letelllier—With a vote of six yes and four no, the item has been tabled. I would ask that the zoning committee speak with, and ordinance committee, speak with Deb Dachos and see who we can get for a speaker from the state to clarify some of these issues. Thank you. i 3. TR-2008-7 -A Resolution Appropriating and Authorizing a Loan Order in the Amount of Two Hundred Fifty Thousand $250 000A0 Dollars Pursuant to Massachusetts General Laws Chapter 44, Section 7 (2B) for the Rehabilitation /R.econstruction of the Pool at Perry Lane Park. (Mayor) L!Laority of those present and voting) (Referred to the Finance Committee) President Letellier—Do we have a motion? Moved by Councilor Simpson, seconded by Councilor Mineo. This was referred to the Finance Committee. We have a written report from the Finance Committee. Does the Finance Committee wish to make an oral report as well? Councilor Young? A Councilor Young—Yes, please. Thank you. The Finance Committee met last Thursday night, March 131h, to review this matter. In attendance were myself, Councilor Rossi, Councilor Perry and Councilor Calabrese. And also in attendance were Chris Sparks, Director of Park & Recreation and Anthony Albro, Director of Building Maintenance. • Also for the Council's information and pleasure, Mr. Sparks is in attendance tonight if any further information is required, we could have a presentation or further dialogue with him as well. After much review and I do believe, each of the council received a packet of information and pictures and descriptions of the state of our Perry Lane pool and after review of that and discussion on the estimates,the proposal, the committee unanimously approved to send a positive recommendation to the full council to approve the loan order. Thank you. President Letellier—Thank you. Any other discussion from the council? Councilor Bitzas? Councilor Bitzas—Yea. I got a question. We just got this today I believe, these pictures, it's the first time I saw these pictures. I've got one question to the chair or the chairman of the Finance Committee, any of the members, $250,000.00 to repair a swimming pool? This is a little bit too much. I mean almost a quarter of a million dollars, can't they make it less money? Less money, the pool, I mean, when I saw this amount, I said, we can build a pool with less than that—a brand new pool. Did you, Councilor Young, or...did you investigate that to see if it's that much money for three months' or maybe two months' use. I mean I'd love to have a swimming pool there, I have no problem but I know tomorrow morning when I go to have a coffee with my friends,they're going to ask r me $250,000.00 for a swimming pool that can be used by some people for only two months, eight weeks, ten weeks. I have no problem to give some money to make the, make it work, but I have a little bit difficulty to vote tonight for this amount of money. I'm not gonna vote no and I'm not gonna vote yes, I'd like to see table this, or I'd like to see, I'm going to abstain because I'm not sure if the money is really too much—too much 41 tax payer's money for that to repair a swimming pool. Maybe this is right, I don't know. Councilor Young? Councilor Young—We, I think the committee, again, we reviewed these bids and both Chris Sparks and Mr. Albro gave the presentation, I believe, and we can call Chris up 0 here, to give a full explanation but what the pictures will show you are the results of patching over many years. I forget how many, I don't know that they told us, I mean, and it's at the point where it just needs a total re-do. And again, I believe, time is of the essence, I mean if we hope to have this repaired in time for the summer camp which without a pool doesn't leave much of a camp you know, again, I apologize for what we * represented. It came on the agenda last meeting; we had the committee,probably the quickest so far this year. Again, I don't know if Councilor Perry wants to give a description to Councilor Bitzas? Councilor Perry—Sure. If I may. President Letellier- Certainly, Councilor Perry. Councilor Perry—Madam President,through the chair to Councilor Bitzas if I may, I understand $250,000.00 is a lot of money and you got the pictures this evening or looking at them and looks like a lot of money to repair and patch that little area. It's much more involved than that. That pool has been there since, for about 45 years. It has the same filtration system that is the original system that's in there, piping, everything. They're looking to upgrade that. The Building Maintenance Department has done an excellent job over the years of keeping that pool afloat for the activities. There's much more than just patching those holes in the pavement that you're looking at. It's a large pool. You could no way ever put a pool in that size for$250,000.00 today! There's no way possible. It's T-shaped, you have the deep end in the back which is 25' by 25',nine feet deep or twelve feet deep, somewhere around there. The front portion of it is an olympic sized pool. Okay? What they're looking to do is with this money is to basically eliminate the deep end because the way it works now, with the diving board,that deep end which is 25' by 25', if one person's on that diving board, no one is allowed in that whole area. So by having that diving board and one person diving,that whole area is useless as far as any type of swimming activities, training and things of that nature. They're going to with this money; fill in that deep end so that whole area's now going to be in use for different activities as far as swimming, training, things of that nature. They're also putting in a whole new filtration system,the lines, the relocating them, they're also refurbishing the decking around the pool with this money. So there's a lot more to it than just patching what you see in the pictures there for the money that they're looking for. They're also, it's going to be handicapped accessible. They're going to have a lift that is going to be able to take handicap, swing them over,buoy them into the water, you know, if you go through it there's a lot more here that's well worth it and unfortunately time is of the essence between now and when the park opens, they have that time frame to do these repairs, replace the filter systems, reloc,re-do the piping. You know if you think about that pool, it's, you know, all those inlets and outlets filtering that water,they have to replace all of those. You know they've been there for forty five years as well as the tank, so there's a lot here and when the project is done, it's going to save Tony and his crew, countless hours every year trying to prepare that, patching like they have over the years and repainting and so on and so forth cuz that pool is drained every year. There's no liner in it. It's a complete cement pool, it has to be drained every year so I know Tony in the meeting, suggested that, recommended that this be done so hopefully I answered some of your questions. Councilor Bitzas—Yes, yes, you did. I hope, I'm not going to, I'm against table; I'm not going to delay this thing, I hate to table things or to charter object to delay that. I know the value of the pool. I know how much the kids will use it. My kids went through ! there years ago, I went there myself and the kids need the swimming pool. But what bothers me and maybe, maybe the committee is right, I mean, $250,000.00 maybe is not too much money, but for me a quarter of a million dollars to repair, it seems to be astronomical but if as you said Councilor and the committee said that, I believe you and I respect that. I mean I have a hard time to vote yes, but I guess we have to bite the bullet S and do it because there's no other choice. 1 don't know. President Letellier—Councilor Calabrese? And then we have... Councilor Calabrese—I was at that Finance Committee meeting and it was about a 10' by 20' section of the floor pool that raised up about six inches deep of concrete and as I understand it there's a fairly narrow window of opportunity they have to do the repair work because camp is scheduled to open on or about June 25a'. I was impressed by the efforts that were made by to save a substantial sum of money. For example, the town is going to be doing the electrical work rather than contracting that out and it's the intent to i do that electrical work during the final two weeks of school while that man power is still available. The idea of opening the park, the camp, without the pool, it you know it really kind of puts a damper on the whole experience because then when they do is they transport the children from the camp up to the Jr. High to do their swimming and they got to come back so there expenses and having these kids being carted back and forth through town to get some swimming in, so, I voted in favor of this expenditure at the Finance Committee meeting and I'll be looking hopefully to having this approved this evening. Thank you. President Letellier--Thank you. Councilor Simpson? 40 Councilor Simpson—Okay thank you. I will not belabor the point because some of my fellow councilors have already pointed out some of the things that I was going to, but if you read the memo that was sent to us by Chris Sparks explaining everything that was going to be done to the pool, I just don't want people to think there's just gonna be a couple a little patches to be made and that's it. This is long overdue. This pool, it should * have been done before this especially when you're talking about updating filtration systems, I mean that's a health issue. We don't want children and or adults swimming in pools where the filtration systems are not up to par. Also, anyone who's aware of just what it costs to put a backyard pool in, it's astronomical and you're talking about...in someone's backyard. You could not build this pool for$250,000.00 if you were gonna start right from scratch. The children need it for the camps up there. You have eight, or like three different sessions of camps in the hot, hot weather. It's long overdue and I think the cost is very reasonable for what is going to be done to it. And it has my full support...Thank you. President Letellier—Thank you. Councilor Mineo? Councilor Mineo—I agree with everything that Jill said. I know cuz I've been working with Chris Sparks and with Park& Rec Committee, this is long overdue. We've talked about doing this for probably close to ten years. I know last year because the pool wasn't r functional the first week uh, so the kids,there's four sessions and eight weeks of camp and the first week there was no pool. I believe uh,that first week, if I'm right Chris, was it like 80°or 90'the entire week? (nodding yes) And uh, you know, I think the pool goes with the camp and I mean I think, we, we need to bite the bullet and I think we need to take care of this. 0 President Letellier—Thank you. Councilor Rossi? Councilor Rossi---Yes, thank you. I think, I must admit at the onset when I first got this packet, I, like Councilor Bitzas, said geez a quarter of a mullion dollars for a pool but when I got to the sub-committee meeting and I had to take a look at the project and 0 everything else and I found out what was really entailed and along with the other thing that I looked at, what it does and what it services to the community by way of the camps 0 and open swimming and other activities, and listening to Chris talk about how much it's used by the community, and I think that the price that we're paying here is a very small • price in terms of when you look at forty years before we every really put any kind of money to speak of into it as Tony eluded to at the meeting. Every year they had to patch this thing and they showed us these pictures of these craters in the concrete that they try to patch and make work year after year. And then talk about the filtration system that Dennis talked about, that's been in existence for 40 years. I'd like to get that out of my pool. I just think it's something that we just have to do and as I said taking into all the other factors, that Perry Lane is a self-sustaining park. It really doesn't cost us a lot of money and if we occasionally every forty years have to put a little bit of money into maintenance, I don't think it's high price to pay for the services that it's provided the community. So I would strongly urge the Council to vote for this. President Letellier—Thank you. Any further discussion? Councilor Bitzas? Councilor Bitzas—I like this! This is very interesting that everybody's speaking. That's nice.'It's a nice debate. I hope we do that with every resolution and thank you councilors. I wish I was at the sub-committee meeting but yes, my opinion and I still believe it is too much money but I will support it. I have no problem with it. I see, as I said before, let's bite the bullet and if it's good for the kids, let's go for it. Move the question... • President Letellier—Councilor Rheault's light is on for the first time. Councilor Rheault— Yea. When Councilor Bitzas first started speaking I thought I can't be in agreement with him that it's too much money but I think he has a very valid point. I understand the needs for the children of the town and I have some mixed emotion as to ! why it got into the state that it's at but that's a whole other argument. $250,000.00 is a lot of money and I just want you to bear in mind one thing, it's been a problem for about ten years but we've had a sewer problem in this town for ten years and we keep talking about it but it doesn't seem like we're going anywhere or doing anything constructive so that quarter of a million dollars would be nice. We have people that are swimming in 9 their sewers in their yards and I think that that's sort of unfair and we had as recent as today in the coffee shop, a gentleman said, you know, he's had that problem for a long time. So I would hope that we pay that much attention to resolving the sewer issue in this town as we're paying attention to this. Thank you. 0 President Letellier—Any other discussion? No? We've received a memorandum from Laurel Placzek, the Town Treasurer, I'm sorry, yea, Treasurer/Collector and she indicates that bond to council has said that we need two readings and a two-thirds vote because there are ten people here tonight, two-thirds is seven. If there were eleven, it would be eight but it's seven out of the ten. So tonight will be the first of two readings on this i resolution. Again, seven votes are needed. Could you please call the roll Barbara? ROLL CALL— 9 Yes, 1 Abstain(Councilor Rheault), 1 Absent(Councilor Cavallo). President Letellier—With nine yes and one abstain, we have a two-thirds reading majority for the first reading. The first reading has passed. Thank you. Councilor Rheault—Point of information. Just for the record. Again, and hopefully I won't receive some adverse email regarding this, but incurring a bond debt in General Law and requires eight votes—Chapter 44, Section 2. So either Laurel or somebody was in error. Even though it did receive the required amount. • President Letellier—Well, we do have eight votes. I will double check as to whether it's two-thirds of those present and voting or two-thirds of the whole council. Do you have the Rules handy Mr. Rheault? Okay, I'll take a moment recess... 0 Councilor Rheault—"Full Council". President Letellier—Two thirds of the full council, that's eight votes are needed. We in fact had nine votes, so the first reading has passed. Thank you, Councilor Rheault. Councilor Simpson —Could I have a point of information? I though we were in a recess. ! That's why I came over to you earlier to speak to you. President Letellier—I said a moment. Is there something that you need to? Councilor Simpson—I no, I just wanted to ask you, I can do it on the floor, it's okay, I 0 just was curious as a point of information since it does need two readings because of the bond issue which means we don't meet again til April 71h, I didn't know if that's gonna cause a problem with getting things done. Can we suspend to do a second reading? I know we usually don't, we do two and three together but not 1". I'm just a little concerned with another delay til April 71h approving and then moving on, is that gonna • cause an issue? If it doesn't, no problem. It was just my thoughts. President Letellier— You know, there's no emergency preamble in front of us. I don't know that we necessarily have the grounds to suspend the rules. Suspending the rules is a pretty extreme measure. If Chris Sparks indicates that we need to do it sooner, we • could call a special meeting. We could post it Tuesday, have it Thursday, that's forty- eight hours. Have it next Monday if we needed to. I'll leave it up to Chris if he feels that we need to have a special meeting for that. Thank you. You can email me Chris or call me tomorrow or stay late whatever. • 4. TR-2008-8 -A Resolution Accepting a Gift in the Amount of Eighty Thousand ($80.000.40) Dollars from Berkshire Power LLC Pursuant to Massachusetts General Laws Cha ter 44 Section 53A for the Acquisition and, Construction of of a Pl�aae--at the School Street,Park. (Mayor)(Majority of those present and voting) (Referred to the Finance Committee) r President Letellier—Again, we have a written report from the Finance Committee. Do we have a motion? Moved by Councilor Simpson, seconded by Councilor Young. • Councilor Young do you wish to give a report? • Councilor Young—Sure, again at Iast Thursday's meeting we reviewed the gift from Berkshire Power. My understanding is this one of the original; this is an original promise from Berkshire Power on behalf of the town in order to get the park underway. So I believe the original promise was for$100,000.00. They had given us $20,000.00 early on, that was used for designing or something like that, and then this is the remainder. Given that the park is nearly completed and the gift is being made and directed towards putting in the Playscape that was removed from our one of the original requests from the Committee to fund that project. So again, it was a unanimous approval by the sub- committee to recommend that the council pass this and accept the gift. Thank you. President Letellier—Thank you. Any other discussion? No? Seeing none, Barbara, could you please call the roll? Six votes are needed. ROLL CALL— 10 Yes, 1 Absent (Councilor Cavallo) • President Letellier—With ten yes, one absent, we've accepted the gift. Item 7. Report of Council Committees a. Committee of Rules & Regulations---Counc. Calabrese Councilor Calabrese—Thank you. The Rules & Regulations Committee has met twice this quarter. We discussed an issue that's on the Agenda under Old Business—the elimination of verbatim minutes and I will give my report at that time when that item comes up. We also discussed renaming the Traffic & Street Safety Committee to the 0 Public Safety Committee and 1 have drafted proposed legislation and will be sending that up to the legal department...modernizing, streamlining and taking out any duplicitous information or language with regard to the Council Rules & Regulations. You all should have received the most recent revision and if you wish to comment, feel free to go ahead and do that either by writing, email or you can call me. And the Rules &Regulations Committee will be extremely active in this next quarter as we have a number of items on our plate to address. Thank you. b. Committee of Utilities & Street Acceptance—Counc. Mineo Councilor Mineo—No matter before the Committee this quarter. c. Committee of Licenses—Counc.Rossi Councilor Rossi—Yes, thank you. We since the beginning of the year, the License Committee, have met timely on the applications for car lots and other amusement licenses and other licenses before the community and I'm happy to say that all of them have went through very smoothly and that there are no pending licenses before the committee at this • time. • d. Committee of Traffic & Street Safety—Counc. Perry Councilor Perry—Yes, thank you, Madam President, our committee had one issue referred to us that was the Hunt Street No Parking which we discussed this evening, which was ultimately passed. That's all we had referred to us this quarter. Thank you. • e. Committee of Ordinances— Counc. Rheault Councilor Rheault—Thank you. We met regarding the parking issue and we had a full committee at that meeting of Councilor Calabrese and Councilor Cavallo and it was a 49 joint meeting with the Zoning Committee with Councilor Rossi and Councilor Messick as chair and I believe Councilor Perry was there. And regarding the Temporary parking ordinance it was my suggestion and basically the committee's suggested to keep it as simple as possible and right now it stands and we believe it's gonna remain where it stands. In an earlier discussion I had with Councilor Rossi, he brought out some points that I think it would be apropos to get it in a zoning fashion and at that time I did not share those with you because Councilor Rossi was away. After discussion with him today, there's no problem that you receive them and I will have Barbara put those in your packet. We briefly discussed the sign ordinance and we didn't come up with any conclusions. We're open to suggestions if in fact we want to do any changes but I think that there's some small businesses that are being hurt and I think we need to really • address that issue. One of the suggestions was to have temporary signs be displayed with their hours or what have you out front, then take them in at night which wouldn't have any impact. And then there were some other suggestions that were pretty good but I would be open to the Council's suggestions as to how we could resolve that in a very amicable way without hurting any of our businesses, cuz that certainly was not our intent. 49 One of the, well more than one of my constituents and yours as well was concerned about getting off highways and seeing like at the Suffield Street, we had signs pointing at every business that you could think of and their suggestion to me and I thought it was a pretty good one, was have the Beautification Committee look at the possibility of putting the names of the businesses on one sign, attractive, which I thought was a good idea. So it • would be sort of a welcomed sight rather than an unwelcomed sight. And that concludes it. f. Committee of Zoning Review—Counc. Messick • Councilor Messick—The Zoning Committee met three times in conjunction with the Ordinance Committee. In addition to what Councilor Rheault has just said, we discussed the Zone Change for CVS, we also had a meeting about the topic we were just discussing earlier this evening where Debbie Dachos came in and gave us a presentation on the 43D. And I would just like to say we will be meeting again in that regard. I'll gather some information in conjunction with Debbie as far as how that actually works and we will clarify that issue. Thank you. • i g. Committee of Finance--Counc. Young ! Councilor Young—Yes. Thank you. The Finance Committee has met twice this quarter and has had four items referred to it. The first two being salary transfers, ordinances that were passed unanimously as well as this evening's two matters that we just spoke about. In addition to the scope of finance, I will mention that on March 1 Oth,the School Budget led by Councilor Simpson met in conjunction with the School Committee, Finance Sub- Committee I guess, in a joint session. We had our first peek at the '09 School Budget which I thought went well and we anxiously await the rest of this quarter, receiving the information from our Mayor on the Town and overall budget process and timelines to review and approve that as well. Thank you. h. Committee of Industrial Relations—Counc. Perry President Letellier—Councilor Perry, I don't believe anything was referred to the Industrial Relations Committee? Alright. Thank you. Item 8. Elections None. Item 9. Public Hearings • None. Item 10. Old Business 1. TO-2007-52 -Discussion of elimination of verbatim Council Minutes i to outline form. (Councilor Young) (Tabled on 3/3/08) (Majority of those present and voting) (Referred to Rules Committee) President Letellier—The item was tabled. Do we have a motion to take it off the table? Moved by Councilors Calabrese and Bitzas, seconded by Councilor Young. This was referred to the Rules Committee and there was a meeting this evening. Councilor Calabrese? Councilor Calabrese—Yes. The Rules Committee met this evening to discuss whether or not to send a positive or negative recommendation on this item. What I had done was had sample minutes, alternate formats, distributed to all the City Councilors just for them to take a look at to see if there were any particular formats that are used else where including with our School Committee which we would wish possibly to adopt here. The Rules Committee voted unanimously to send a negative recommendation to eliminating the verbatim minutes. We did have a discussion about offering the option of Councilors to receive the verbatim minutes in full via an electronic format rather than a paper format and that may be something that we could coordinate with our Council Clerk. You may opt to receive the minutes via either an email or some other type of electronic medium. • • But we will be sending a negative recommendation to the idea of eliminating the verbatim council minute format. Thank you. • President Letellier—Thank you. Any discussion? Councilor Bitzas? Councilor Bitzas—Yes, I would like to commend the first citizen, Paul, he said it all. So I don't have to say anything about it, so you did a very good job, Paul, if you're still here. But one more thing I want to add, this is insurance for us also. We don't realize. If I don't have verbatim minutes, I don't know what A, B, or C person said and also most important,the Citizen's Speak Time, we have to know what our citizens say exactly. And especially sometimes during the heated elections, before election period, as we saw last election, people speak...to us. And we like to know to have everything thrown to us • because sometimes they destroy things, they do things during the election period, it always happens so I'm glad to have in writing whatever individuals have said so this is insurance for me. And I like it very much and I went to the meeting to oppose the elimination of the verbatim minutes and also the people have to know exactly what we've said, why we vote no, what we voted yes, why we tabled one, why didn't we table this, so it should be an open book and I'm glad you're committee voted against and I'm going to vote against it tonight and I hope the full council votes against it. Thank you. President Letellier—Thank you. Councilor Rossi? Councilor Rossi—Thank you. I am in agreement that verbatim minutes should be kept • intact but I also think we need to update our system here. I think that's really what the problem is. This system has been in effect for so long that it's just so far out of date that it's just to cumbersome to deal with. Now I read the minutes of the meetings and I think that there a lot that's missed over here. A lot of it's because maybe these things aren't working correctly or they cut off or you get intermittent stuff coming through and it's really not a reflection on Barbara cuz I think she does a wonderful job given the equipment she has to work with but beyond all of that I'm in favor of verbatim minutes because I firmly believe us Councilors here have a responsibility to the community to be understood as to how we vote and why we vote up here. I think that's very important for them. If we're gonna come up here and vote on an issue I think we should be able to stand accountable to the community for that. And I think by taking away verbatim minutes,we've removed that. I think that's a very important process so I will be in favor of keeping verbatim minutes. President Letellier—Thank you. Councilor Simpson? Councilor Simpson—Thank you. I think part of the issue is that our own School Committee does not use verbatim minutes and also I know the neighboring town of West Springfield doesn't. I think maybe if we can come up with a different way to do this because I think producing large documents to eleven councilors every other week is not economically feasible and if you want to go on green, it's not very green by doing that, producing the paperwork. I have said that I have been in favor of eliminating verbatim minutes and I went on record, I have a couple of sessions with people in town on that and • I take personal issue to think that I'm trying to hide something or there' secretiveness or what's going on. I assume that our School Committee is not hiding anything and they do • not use verbatim minutes. And the Town of West Springfield is not hiding anything. I think of it as a way to try to streamline what goes on and if we can advance our technology because if we read our verbatim minutes and this is how Barbara has to type them but you get um's, and oh's, and every little I don't think that's necessary to have to put in there. So I think that we should go to a way to try and streamline what she has to • type of all the important things but I really think it's not necessary to do things like that, to capture that, that has no essence to what is going on. So I would like to see some type of looking into what we can do to streamline like I said, if all the councilors don't want to receive a hard copy of it, it does come in handy if you're not at a particular meeting but if you've been at the meeting, maybe you don't actually need a hard copy but can access it • another way. So I still think we need to look into what we can do to better the system. But I do want to go on record as saying that this Councilor,just because I'd like to streamline, I'm not doing something secretive or behind closed doors and I take exception to comments like that. Thank you. • President Letellier—Thank you. Any other discussion? A yes vote,well the item is listed as a discussion but I would suggest that a no vote would take the item off the table and we would retain verbatim minutes. So a yes vote I guess would be to continue the discussion and a no vote would be to take the item off the agenda and to eliminate further discussion of eliminating verbatim minutes. Councilor Simpson—Point of Information? President Letellier— Yes? Councilor Simpson—Could we still, can it still be an active measure if we want to talk about streamlining and things even if we get rid of this part of it? Can we still pursue other avenues? President Letellier— Yes. The item listed is to eliminate verbatim minutes. So a yes vote would be to support eliminating verbatim minutes, a no vote would be to be opposed to the elimination of verbatim minutes. Councilor Rossi - If I may, why can't we just keep it on the table until, if you want to look at alternatives, why can't we just do that? I mean, like Councilor Simpson, and others, I agree to streamlining myself. I'm in favor of verbatim but maybe I don't necessarily want um's and ah's in there either. If that's the issue then why don't we just keep it until we see if there's other options available before we just say absolutely not? President Letellier—There's no motion to table, if there is, we'll vote on it, but for right now, there's no motion to table. The item was taken off the table, a motion was made, discussion was had... • Councilor Bitzas— Let's vote and kill it, Madam President. It's plain. i President Letellier—I just call the vote. You guys make the motions. So if someone ! wants to table it,then we'll address the tabling motion. Councilor Bitzas —Can you clarify Madam President, a no vote is to ? President Letellier—Alright, okay. A yes vote would be to eliminate verbatim council minutes. A no vote would be NOT to, I know it's a double negative, a no vote would be to retain verbatim council minutes. Councilor Bitzas— So, move the question. President Letellier— Question's been moved, seconded. Okay, Barbara, could you call the roll? Again, for clarification purposes, a yes vote is to eliminate verbatim minutes and a no vote is to retain verbatim minutes. Six votes are needed. ROLL CALL—0 Yes, 10 No, 1 Absent(Councilor Cavallo) President Letellier— With ten no, we are retaining verbatim council minutes. That does not mean that Councilors can't bring suggestions forward or the Rules Committee can re- meet if there are any new ideas but I would encourage councilors if they're willing to,to take the minutes by email and then you, I don't know if you use your own paper,but you'll be saving the town hundreds and hundreds of pages of paper. So that's just a ! suggestion. Item 11. New Business 1. TR-2008-9 -A Resolution Authorizing the Mayor to Execute Any ! and All Documents Pertaining to the Exercise of the City's First Refusal Option Under Massachusetts General Laws Chapter 61A with regard to the Property. Owned by Dorathy C. Lango,Donald Lango, and Amelia Lango which is Located at 141 Rowley Street,Agawam, Hamden County, Massachusetts Consisting of Approximately Nine(9) Acres. (Mayor) ! jMaiorA vote of those present and voting President Letellier— I believe Mr. Lango is here, yes, and so that will be referred to the Finance Committee to decide if they want to accept that property or not. Next agenda. • 2. TR-2008-10 -A Resolution Accepting a Gift in the Amount of Seven Thousand ($7,000.00)Dollars from the Agawam Disability Commission Pursuant to Massachusetts General Laws Chapter 44 Section 53A for the Acquisition and Construction of a Pla sca a at the School Street Park. (Mayor) Waiority vote o f those present and voting) President Letellier—That will be referred to the Recreation Committee. Again, next agenda. ! • 3. TR-2008-11 -A Resolution Confirming the A ointment of Mark • Paleoloopoulos, 100 Paul Revere Drive, Feeding Hills,MA to the Agawam Planning Board to Complete an Unexpired Term Expiring January 1,2010. (Mayor) (Majority vote of those present and voting) President Letellier—Next agenda. • 4. TR-2008-12 -A Resolution Accepting A Distribution of Funds from the Settlement of the Compact Disc Antitrust Litigation Pursuant to Massachusetts General Laws Chapter_44, Section 53A to be Utilized by the Agawam Public Library for the Express Purpose of Furtherina Music � i Related Programs at the Agawam Public Library. (Mayor) (Majority,vote of those present and voting) President Letellier— The librarian will be here next meeting. The item is only for$300 if the Finance Committee wishes to review it I can,but I don't know that it's necessary for$300. And the librarian will be here so that's next agenda. • 5. TO-2008-13 - Voucher List $85.81 LALajority vote of those present andand voting President Letellier—Next agenda. • 6. TO-2008-14 -Voucher List($990.00) (Majority vote of'those present and voting) President Letellier—Next agenda. i Item 12. Any other matter that may legally come before the City Council. President Letellier—We'll start with Councilor Perry. i Councilor Perry— Yes, thank you Madam President, I'll be short so Barbara doesn't have to type so much. I just wanted to say Happy St. Patrick's Day to all of our Irish folks out there and Irish folks at heart and Happy Anniversary to my wife, Anne Marie., 29 years today. Thank you. • Councilor Messick—I wanted to say congratulations to the Agawam Democratic Committee for hosting a wonderful show. We showed the movie Paper Clips which was about a group of children in Tennessee who learned and opened up their world by clipping paper clips for each victim of the Holocaust. It was a great showing. We had two showings and over fifty people attended both times. I just wanted to say congratulations on that success and Happy St. Patrick's Day! • President Letellier—Thank you. Councilor Bitzas? i • Councilor Bitzas—Thank you. Just like to wish a Happy St. Patrick's Day to the Irish. • I'm not Irish, my family of course are Irish and that's all. President Letellier—Thank you. Councilor Young? Councilor Young—I have nothing this evening. • President Letellier—Thank you. Councilor Simpson? Councilor Simpson—Yes, thank you. Two things. I would Iike to encourage the Rules Committee to still continue looking at the minutes and encourage any councilors with any ideas to maybe send them out or submit them. I will be doing that. And also I'm not sure if this is something that we can pursue or how we can look into,I think it's probably a major thing, but I believe you all received, I believe you did, all receive the memo after our budget sub-committee meeting that we had;it came to light about the use of the stage here at the Middle School — • President Letellier—I'm going to address that. Councilor Simpson— You are? Okay. Alright. That's all I had to say. Thank you. President Letellier—Oh alright. Councilor Mineo? • Councilor Mineo —Nothing tonight. President Letellier— Councilor Rossi? • Councilor Rossi—Yes,just quickly. I hope I didn't in any way by my presentation on this verbatim minutes imply that someone was trying to hide something,that really wasn't my intent and if I offended anyone,I apologize for that. My intent was merely that I thought and maybe I'm speaking more for myself than anyone else, I just thought that we as councilors should be accountable to what we say up here and that the public has a right to know that. Not that anybody necessarily is gonna hide anything,but if I did offend someone, I'm sorry. The other issue is I'm getting a lot of comments and emails and phone calls about these potholes. Now I know that the town has a rotating schedule of roads that they're supposed to address and stuff, but can we get a letter out to Jack Stone to find out if and when that thing is gonna take place and it seems to be driving a • lot of people crazy and especially if you're going into Westfield. But now I'm getting complaints even on like Doane Avenue and I don't know if any of the other councilors got a letter from someone on Doane Avenue but I mean that's, how much more of a secondary street can you get that's in trouble and I think it's time that we do something. Hopefully, we can get a letter out. President Letellier—Councilor Messick had Barbara send a letter to the DPW after the last meeting, you weren't here, so you wouldn't have known that. Anal I don't know to • • what degree there's been much of a response. Okay, Barbara, you know? • Clerk—The Mayor's office told me that they were, the cold patches, whatever process has begun and there was really no need to in writing respond to your memo. That's what I was told. President Letellier—Thank you Barbara. Did you have anything else Councilor Rossi? • Councilor Rossi—If they need bandaids, I'd be more than happy to supply them. President Letellier— Thank you. Councilor Rheault? • Councilor Rheault—Just to assure you that the road to Westfield has been patched and several patches, I don't know if it's worse with the patches or without but it has been done. And Westfield in response I guess followed Agawam and did their part of it, going through the Feeding Hills sector. Last meeting I brought up the concern of the police I'm not gonna say contract but suit, and back in December 13,2007,I had wrote to our then attorney, Vincent Gioscia, regarding the status of the overtime and suggested the following questions be answered—the status of the police overtime, the court transcript costs, the amount of money the town owes, and where's the funding coming from and the basis for the appeal. And he had unexpectedly I guess thought the Mayor was gonna get defeated and said that he would be holding it in an Executive Session but he's no longer with us. And I didn't know if you had a chance to speak with the Mayor with regards to this, Madam President, but at that time, the town owed $634,319.00 and it's compounding interest everyday to the best of my knowledge and I think it's time that somebody sit down and put an end to this before they break the town. And I would hope that you would share my comments to her in your weekly or whenever you meet with her in hopes that she could respond back to the Council as to the status of where we are with • it. And I think that's all I have right now. President Letellier—Councilor Calabrese? Councilor Calabrese—Yes. First of all, I want to especially thank my fellow committee members on the Rules Committee, Councilor Rheault and Councilor Perry, for your work because I know we have a good number of meetings ahead of us and I just want to thank you in advance for what you've done, for what you are going to be doing and also in regard to street safety, I don't know how frequently any of you come through the intersection of Springfield Street and North Street, but that traffic light has been blinking • for days now. So,Barb,I don't know if you could send a memo to the appropriate department to find out what the problem is because it is kind of tricky getting through there. Thank you. President Letellier— Let's see. Let's start with Councilor Simspon first with the memo from the Superintendent of Schools. I checked with the Mayor's office and also with our • cable TV volunteers and this is still the only school that's accessible for the cable TV so that we can broadcast the meetings. In terms of if they want to have an event at the • • Middle School, it's simply a matter of folding up the tables and moving them. It's really not a big deal. I don't know why it's become a big deal but I understand it would mean • an extra janitor to help the one janitor move things and if there's going to be a function, there's probably gonna be a second janitor anyway. So right now there's no other choice in town for the meetings. Councilor Rheault with regard to the police contract, both the police contract and the law suit, I talked with the Mayor about at every meeting. I'm told that we are closer but I certainly don't think an Executive Session is out of order. So I will have Barbara see if Chris Johnson is available for our second April meeting. As a reminder at our first April meeting, we have an Executive Session on the cell towers. So I will, I think that's a good idea. The Doane Avenue petition, I'm going to refer to Traffic & Street Safety, they did not ask for a public hearing, so at this point it's just a matter of referring it to Traffic & Street Safety. Let's see I've addressed, we, we a received on the 13`h, our invitation to march in the St. Patrick's Day Parade, it was date stamped March 130' and our response is due February 2Wh. Nonetheless,I don't think they are going to exclude us. So the parade this year is March 30th, if you think you want to attend please let me know and I will add your names here to the list and I'll have Barbara turn it in. When you turn it in Barbara make sure you turn it in with the time stamp that shows we didn't get it tit the 13th9 Clerk—I was told to give her a phone call because of the lateness of receiving it. President Letellier—That's fine. I just don't want them to think that we're ignoring their request. I was actually wondering gee why didn't we get invited to the parade. • Clerk—I have the original in the office if you want it. President Letellier— Oh, I've already filled this one in. Okay, thank you. Okay, let's see what else. I want to congratulate the Cultural Council for their recent evening with • Eleanor Whitman at the library. It was excellent. It was funny. And also the Cultural Council gave the Democratic Committee the money to have the Paper Clips project and that was an excellent event as well. And we talked about using the email, so if you could let Barbara know if you want to accept minutes by email. Happy Easter to everyone and I'll take a motion to adjourn. All in favor signify by saying Ay. Opposed? We are adjourned. Thank you. Adiournment. •